Alexander the Jar's Connection to the DLC *SPOILERS*

[Necrophoria]

Honestly, who else thought the same when they saw that the jars actually are on the inside and thought "I can't look at Alexander the same again"?

Anybody have any interesting theories? I beat the DLC and am doing the whole post game piecing things together thing. I have learned that the sages were made into jars to become saints by the hornsent, but still I am bewildered at what that means for the jar people we have in the base game. This would include Alexander the warrior jar, Jar Bairn, and the great jar in caelid.

Wasn't this torturous for the people? Didn't Marika belong to the shamans who were in turn forced into jars? Wasn't the entire Messmer crusade an act of revenge upon the hornsent for this? What is their purpose in the lands between?

Just having a hard time figuring out why we still have the jar people in the lands between, who also seem to be the friendliest bunch, despite the horror of their creation. Anybody have any ideas?

[Garn]

from what I have seen from various youtuber including vaati, they are not the same thing. The jars in lands between are made from already dead people and passed from jar to jar. The shadow realm jars are made using the horrific shaman melding ritual.

[Shmirtz]

The jars look really different, the seal on the top of alexander has the erdtree and the pots in the DLC have another logo

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by Garn:

from what I have seen from various youtuber including vaati, they are not the same thing. The jars in lands between are made from already dead people and passed from jar to jar. The shadow realm jars are made using the horrific shaman melding ritual.

I take lore content creator input with a grain of salt, since they literally survive off of theory crafting and need to do it out of necessity.

Like, really, how certain are we that they are truly different other than Alexander trying to consume more flesh or Bairn consuming Alexander? It looks to me like the jars in the DLC are trying to do the same thing to me LOL.

[Necrophoria]

Especially with that disgusting grab move.

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by Talisman:

The jars look really different, the seal on the top of alexander has the erdtree and the pots in the DLC have another logo

That's easily explainable due to their faction alignment. My question is how or why they exist as they are in the base game while their DLC counterparts are the way they are. . .

It also seems to me like the DLC jars existed before the base games ones chronologically, so the base game jars have to either have been inspired by, or literally are the same jars albeit in a different mood.

I know it's not a major thing, but I was so taken aback after dealing with nothing but nice pots for the most part in ER that this came as a shock lol.

[Yoinkyz]

elden ring is the wrong game to wana get into the nitty gritty of the lore. IMO elden ring has no story lol just random cut together treads of string rolled into a ball.

[Persona Au Gratin]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

I take lore content creator input with a grain of salt, since they literally survive off of theory crafting and need to do it out of necessity.

Like, really, how certain are we that they are truly different other than Alexander trying to consume more flesh or Bairn consuming Alexander? It looks to me like the jars in the DLC are trying to do the same thing to me LOL.

Alexander was stuffing dead bodies into himself, you literally see it after the battle with Radahn in Caelid. The process between how the Hornsent performed it, in terms of seeing a ghost talk about being put into a jar while they are still alive, and Alexander, right in front of you, putting corpses in himself, establishes a clear difference in the process.

The thing is, just because Vaati has a profit motive and has had bad takes (Big Hat Logan is sad in his sadness for instance), plopping it all into "It's just forced" is funny because your whole theory relies on shock value while ignoring a detail literally acted out in front of the player.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

Originally posted by Garn:

from what I have seen from various youtuber including vaati, they are not the same thing. The jars in lands between are made from already dead people and passed from jar to jar. The shadow realm jars are made using the horrific shaman melding ritual.

I take lore content creator input with a grain of salt, since they literally survive off of theory crafting and need to do it out of necessity.

Like, really, how certain are we that they are truly different other than Alexander trying to consume more flesh or Bairn consuming Alexander? It looks to me like the jars in the DLC are trying to do the same thing to me LOL.

You are literally theory crafting right now.

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by Rando MacArthur, Crit Horologist:

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

I take lore content creator input with a grain of salt, since they literally survive off of theory crafting and need to do it out of necessity.

Like, really, how certain are we that they are truly different other than Alexander trying to consume more flesh or Bairn consuming Alexander? It looks to me like the jars in the DLC are trying to do the same thing to me LOL.

You are literally theory crafting right now.

But I make 0 money off of this, and therefore am not incentivized to pull things out of my ass to explain things. That's the difference. I am talking about lore for fun and interest, not profit.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

Originally posted by Rando MacArthur, Crit Horologist:

You are literally theory crafting right now.

But I make 0 money off of this, and therefore am not incentivized to pull things out of my ass to explain things. That's the difference. I am talking about lore for fun and interest, not profit.

A profit motive incentivizes thinking more deeply about things and creating more likely theories. A random guy s-posting on the forums is the #1 group to pull things out of their posterior.

[Chibbix]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

Originally posted by Garn:

from what I have seen from various youtuber including vaati, they are not the same thing. The jars in lands between are made from already dead people and passed from jar to jar. The shadow realm jars are made using the horrific shaman melding ritual.

I take lore content creator input with a grain of salt, since they literally survive off of theory crafting and need to do it out of necessity.

Like, really, how certain are we that they are truly different other than Alexander trying to consume more flesh or Bairn consuming Alexander? It looks to me like the jars in the DLC are trying to do the same thing to me LOL.

Okay, well, they definitely are different.

Land Between jars: Used by the Golden Order. Sentient when small and empty (Jar Brairn hasn't started and he's tiny). Primarily seek corpses of powerful warriors, likely due to their rune collection (Jar Brairn states this, Alexander states this, few items state this). Potnates are gentle, non-warriors, who tend to their damages (Jar Brairn won't take us as a potnate, because we're so battle hardened, Diallos is a pacifist, even after his servent gets killed he quickly gives up revenge, joins the people who killed her, only to find he doesn't have the killer's instinct, and leaves, ending up in Jarburg) as their potnate). Erdtree Avatar's whole purpose is to defend the jars surrounding the Minor Erdtrees, so the bodies can be properly absorbed into the Greater Will.

Land of Shadow jars: used by the Hornsent. Not sentient until enough people and at least 1 shaman were butchered and stuffed into it. Will take anyone at all, doesn't have to be a powerful warrior, just has to make sure a Shaman is stuffed in with them. Potnates are butchers and torturers, apparently making sure the Shaman's body is oozing pus is a must in their ritual. They leave them unattended, and unguarded in cold caves and just hope the people butchered will be reborn into "saints".

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by Chibbix:

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

I take lore content creator input with a grain of salt, since they literally survive off of theory crafting and need to do it out of necessity.

Like, really, how certain are we that they are truly different other than Alexander trying to consume more flesh or Bairn consuming Alexander? It looks to me like the jars in the DLC are trying to do the same thing to me LOL.

Okay, well, they definitely are different.

Land Between jars: Used by the Golden Order. Sentient when small and empty (Jar Brairn hasn't started and he's tiny). Primarily seek corpses of powerful warriors, likely due to their rune collection (Jar Brairn states this, Alexander states this, few items state this). Potnates are gentle, non-warriors, who tend to their damages (Jar Brairn won't take us as a potnate, because we're so battle hardened, Diallos is a pacifist, even after his servent gets killed he quickly gives up revenge, joins the people who killed her, only to find he doesn't have the killer's instinct, and leaves, ending up in Jarburg) as their potnate). Erdtree Avatar's whole purpose is to defend the jars surrounding the Minor Erdtrees, so the bodies can be properly absorbed into the Greater Will.

Land of Shadow jars: used by the Hornsent. Not sentient until enough people and at least 1 shaman were butchered and stuffed into it. Will take anyone at all, doesn't have to be a powerful warrior, just has to make sure a Shaman is stuffed in with them. Potnates are butchers and torturers, apparently making sure the Shaman's body is oozing pus is a must in their ritual. They leave them unattended, and unguarded in cold caves and just hope the people butchered will be reborn into "saints".

I understand that they are different as they are now, but don't you also wonder about what makes them similar? There has to be some sort of connection I think.

In physical appearance despite having different lids, they are the pretty much the same (once the freaks in the DLC stay in their jars), and also the way that Alexander consumes Radahn and then Jar Bairn consuming Alexander's flesh afterwards really makes me think about how the ones I ran into constantly tried to grab me, which I guess would result in being absorbed into their fleshy beings.

Idk. Just seems like there's something there. At least an origin story perhaps, since we know the major events in the DLC took place a long time ago before the age of the golden order.

[duck_dodgers]

Alexander has always been part creepy, he has a great deal of dead people in him, including the real Radahn. The charm of our dear Warrior Jar is in how he behaves in spite of his rather grisly origin. He cares for his own kind and exhibits a great deal of perseverance and in the end, when he faces his own limits, he accepts it with a great deal of grace.

TL;DR Alexander is not liked for how he was born/made, he is liked for how he lived as a warrior through and through and reminding us all that all vessels are destined to break.

One question to the OP: How do you claim that the the DLC events took place before the age of the Golden Order? Messmer knows about the Tarnished, which means it is more than likely that he left for the Shadowlands after the Godfrey left and there is a talisman depicting Godfrey in the Shadow Keep. Also, the Black Knight weapons are imbued with an ERdtree incantation.

[duck_dodgers]

Originally posted by Rando MacArthur, Crit Horologist:

A profit motive incentivizes thinking more deeply about things and creating more likely theories. A random guy s-posting on the forums is the #1 group to pull things out of their posterior.

Profit motivation is also equally likely to lead to pandering and the eventual loss of imagination and creativity.

[CourtesyFlush09]

The Hornsent stuffed jars with Shaman because the flesh of Shaman was said to blend very well with others. And since the Hornsent were followers of the Crucible, where all life was once blended together, the Hornsent in turn viewed the act as very sacred and as a way to force the Shaman to be reborn as saints.

The jars in the base game (obviously the descendants of the jars in SotE) now stuff their bodies with dead warriors. They also have the Erdtree symbol on their lids. The symbol leads me to believe that Marika could have kept them around as a reminder of the past and as a way to help transport dead warriors to the Erdtrees.