Elden ring bosses were bad, DLC's are terrible

[Juanill0]

So, here we are, I finally completed the entire DLC with the final boss included. This said, I think Elden Ring is an incredible game brought down by bad bosses.

These bosses never feel satisfying to beat, neither do they feel like a challenge like those of Sekiro, Bloodborne or DS3. They aren't tests of skill, but rather of how fast you can memorise all their moveset... the cause? Delayed attacks and how unnaturally the bosses move.

This is the single worst thing about Elden Ring for me. Delayed attacks can be a good tool to catch the players off guard when they aren't paying attention, the dancer of the boreal valley is a great example of an incredible boss that uses an irregular rythm and delayed attacks to surprise the player.

But what happens when virtually every single combo of every single boss spams them? That you completely break the rythm of the fight.

Let's take Slave Knight Gael, a true last boss that tests all you have learned through DS3, however, he couldn't be more different from ER bosses. His combos are relatively short (between 3 and 6 attacks), with only one important delayed attack and very little AoE, as well as very telegraphed finishers with big gaps to hit back.

This is what makes a good boss, he has rythm. The entire fight is an epic back and forth, a dance of death where he desperately tries to kill you as you grit your teeth through his phases, dodging as you can and punishing him. Most importantly, you have more than enough time to strategise and heal in between combos, or punishing him with a combo.

Now let's take ER DLC bosses... not a single one has rythm, why? Every single attack is a cheesy delayed attack, every 3 attacks 1 is a crazy AoE, every combo is 20 seconds long so you just sit there with your thumb up your ass waiting for him to finish so you can poke him once. Oh, and let's not forget even after they finish their combos, if you as much as touch the estus button half the time they will instantly turn around halfway through their animation and hit you with another 20 hit combo.

And let's not forget how now every single boss has to zoom across the arena every single time he gets bored, meaning you can spend half the fight chasing a boss around as he spams his ''beyblade of death'' attack on you.

ER bosses (and specially those of the DLC) are clearly meant to be fought by 2 people, a summons and you, this sucks if you prefer to solo them and becomes incredibly obvious when even the most bassic attacks of the easiest DLC bosses have giant reach and cover 210º, hitting you even behind the boss.

This also messes completely with the balance up, with bosses doing ridiculous damage and having ridiculous healthpools (and don't you dare summon someone or it gets even worse).

So in the end these bosses aren't fun and don't feel rewarding. They are so grossly agressive and overpowered that after beating the last DLC boss I felt nothing, in fact I didn't feel anything with none of the DLC bosses, they felt like boring roadblocks rather than engaging fights. This is due to how lacking they are in Rythm.

Weirdly enough, even the DLC bosses were relatively simple to beat, with the last boss being the only one that took more than 10 tries, so I don't think difficulty is the issue. And I think these bosses wouldn't be bad if we had Bloodborne's rally mechanic and mobility.

This is so sad because everything else about the game (except the subpar soundtrack) is almost perfect, and it kinda sucks the bosses are so boring and gnerally bad. God bless.

[Talilover]

Lychee eredeti hozzászólása:

DS3 Had some really terrible bosses. It was either really good or straight up boring. Elden ring definitely has some bad ones too, but the overall boss quality is much better both in the main game and DLC imo. The DLC bosses which are considered 'bs' (with the exception of consort), are all very learneable. The movesets look complex at first, but after some time it's really not that bad. I enjoy the painful struggle until a boss clicks, and everyone I've talked to in person also loves the DLC.

Elden Ring combat is very different from Dark Souls. If you want Dark Souls combat, go back to Dark Souls.

There's an ocean of difference between a "terrible" DS3 boss and terrible Elden Ring boss.
Deacons of the Deep and Ancient Wyvern probably come to mind when somebody brings up bad DS3 bosses, and they're just lame/ boring gimmicks
Godskin Duo and Fire Giant probably come to mind when somebody brings up bad Elden Ring bosses, and brother they're way beyond a simple but lame gimmick

And define "overall boss quality" because overall could mean the 165 encounters Elden Ring considers bosses and no way in hell is that anything but awful quality, and if you limit it to the 16 or so "real bosses" it's still a lot of valleys and few peaks.

Elden Ring combat is not very different from Dark Souls, it's a refined version of it. Sekiro is a very different combat system and coincidentally the one the bosses in Elden Ring are using.

[CometCafe]

Why do people always answer with "it was easy", or the limited number of tries it took them to beat a boss ?

It's not about difficulty, it's about the *gamedesign*. About what drives the player to overcome a difficulty, how two opponents are having a dialogue with their weapons and art. This is what makes a beautiful fight.

And I'm sorry, but there's no art in spending 20 uninterrupted seconds without being able to retaliate. No art in having to run all around the room to catch up. No beauty in suddenly being motion blind because even the camera can't deal with such unpredictable movesets.

A beautiful fight is one with openings, back and forth, where equal forces are battling for their life with different techniques. Where you're exchanging strikes, mistakes, space, closeups, for minutes long. That is the thrill of the fight.

In ER the only thing you exchange with your enemy is clumsy rolls and your own death in seconds, ad nauseam. Or summoning a punching bag so you can have a bbq while taking notes. This is not good design.

Actually that makes me realize that the best fights in Elden Ring are pvp.

[Nibbie]

Pescado eredeti hozzászólása:

They aren't tests of skill, but rather of how fast you can memorise all their moveset.

That is a test of skill though, you only say its not because it's not one you want. Also, its not like you memorize the movesets then take your hands of your controller and say you win, obviously you have to execute the fight afterwards. Personally, the second phases of Bayle and the final boss of the DLC are the only bosses that felt bad to fight, I enjoyed the rest of them.

[Im A Toddophile]

Still playing, really enjoying, seeking out all bosses, have beaten them all so far. Messemer impaler boy was the hardest so far. Sounds like a whiney skill issue.

[Juanill0]

CometCafe eredeti hozzászólása:

Why do people always answer with "it was easy", or the limited number of tries it took them to beat a boss ?

It's not about difficulty, it's about the *gamedesign*. About what drives the player to overcome a difficulty, how two opponents are having a dialogue with their weapons and art. This is what makes a beautiful fight.

And I'm sorry, but there's no art in spending 20 uninterrupted seconds without being able to retaliate. No art in having to run all around the room to catch up. No beauty in suddenly being motion blind because even the camera can't deal with such unpredictable movesets.

A beautiful fight is one with openings, back and forth, where equal forces are battling for their life with different techniques. Where you're exchanging strikes, mistakes, space, closeups, for minutes long. That is the thrill of the fight.

In ER the only thing you exchange with your enemy is clumsy rolls and your own death in seconds, ad nauseam. Or summoning a punching bag so you can have a bbq while taking notes. This is not good design.

Actually that makes me realize that the best fights in Elden Ring are pvp.

I agree with this so much, smh. That is what I meant when I spoke about how Gael was such an emotional fight going back and force, dancing with the player.

[Edubb72]

by far the worst excuse for a game yet. sure , you can spend countless hours just downing one lame boss. not very rewarding way of spending your precious time these days. so many other good games out there. Miyazaki just pissed everyone off with this one, just try Radahn fight and you will see. such a joke.

[Ceciliantas]

Their are certain bosses I will not do, and will leave the hosts world immediately if summoned for them, due to how insanely B.S they can be, especially with how nerfed you are as a Visitor.

For those bosses, which I seem to be summoned for, frequently, for some reason, just use a Mimic. I mean ffs, my Mimic is able to solo almost all bosses on his own, cuz I make sure to equip BB before summoning, and he will just constantly recover his health. Mimic for those particular B.S bosses is worth 4 visitors.

[[BEANBAG]]

tmg eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't know what to say, guess us millions of players will enjoy the game and FromSoft will enjoy their millions of copies sold. And you enjoy your steam awards. You'll probably still buy the next game anyway. lol

Sales do not necessarily equate to a good product. Look at windoes as an example of crap bloated software that spies on you if you doubt that fact...

[EF_Neo1st]

Edubb72 eredeti hozzászólása:

by far the worst excuse for a game yet. sure , you can spend countless hours just downing one lame boss. not very rewarding way of spending your precious time these days. so many other good games out there. Miyazaki just pissed everyone off with this one, just try Radahn fight and you will see. such a joke.

I saw, I tried, I failed, I went to do more stuff with the DLC, I tried again and failed again, I went to do more stuff with the DLC, repeat.

You know, I dont have to bash my head against it nonstop if I can just do something else (or maybe even try something different) or . . . yes, go play something else, it is not like someone is forcing me to do Radahn "now" or else...
Also, if it happen that this is the first boss I can not defeat through out all Souls and souls-like games... there is mimic and as last resort players

[zmanbuilder]

Are you talking only about shadow of the urdtree or do you mean all dlc's are terrible in general?

[M.T. Fish]

My main issues with the ER bosses are how much damage some do, the mobility some have, and the AoE / projectile spam a lot have. It's mainly noticeable in the second half of the game and DLC in my opinion but in NG+ and up it can get really annoying as some bosses are doing over 3000 points of damage with some of their attacks. It reminds me of the Four Kings in DS1 on NG+.

The damage restricts viable builds for the average player as is it means 50 to 60 Vigor is a must for the average player and even with that tanking isn't viable for a lot of bosses due to how much stamina damage they do to blocks. Bosses with long wide combos that can't even be interrupted by a great shield are pretty annoying although with the new counter system I understand why. I get why they didn't want super tanks like in the DS1 days and that armor isn't as ineffective as it was in DS3 but it's still pretty annoying with how heavy some of the DLC armors are compared to how effective they are (my opinion might be biased on this as I'm doing the DLC on NG+2 as I didn't want to got through the whole game again).

Some bosses move like wannabe Bloodborne bosses in a game not built for their attack speed and mobility. It'd be one thing if it was some of the bosses as that would make them feel special like Artorias but it's a fair deal of them. It makes some of the fights feel physically tiring to me when they just get in my face and either flail to do damage or let out a fast but long and drawn out combo. The game doesn't encourage aggression like Bloodborne did so it feels less fun to me when they do this.

AoE spam and projectile spam makes some fights feel frantic and, again, tiring and in some cases results in a cheap feeling death. It also makes shields less effective in some fights do to hitting behind or around them. In the case of some bosses it makes it hard to tell what's happening on the screen which is worsened by the size of some of the bosses already making that difficult. Ancient Dragons come to mind with this with their constant lighting spam and large models taking up the screen.

I'd say overall the bosses are my least favorite part of the game.

[EF_Neo1st]

Rakshasa eredeti hozzászólása:

I agree with you OP and even worse is that it's not just the bosses. While I was replaying the story on a new character that I made specifically for the DLC I noticed an absurd number of, "deaths due to being tricked," that only after playing the game or using a guide could you avoid.

Part of playing is that, no guide needed.

Rakshasa eredeti hozzászólása:

Remember that butterfly you see on the ledge that drops from beneath you after going through the four belfry way-gate? ...That death really stuck with me because it was early in the game and I lost a rune arc for no fault of my own. The entire game is full of these.

Honestly, thaat is more on you being careless.

Rakshasa eredeti hozzászólása:

Ambushes placed around important items or enemies guarding pivotal locations makes sense but some of these, "tricks" are a lazy and poor way to make the game more difficult.

Ambushes can be avoided if you pay attention to your surroundings and dont just get through places or enter locations without checking for stuff. THIS is literally core part of every single Souls games and souls-like games.

Rakshasa eredeti hozzászólása:

I still think that this game is a 6/10 as a long-term Fromsoft enjoyer.

I dont agree but that is also my opinion and I dont know how you complain about those 3 things you mentioned on your own post as a "long term Fromsoftare enjoyer", or you somehow managed to skip at least 80% of these games? (Because literally 80% of Dark Souls 1/2/3 is around tricky deaths or ambushes or "having to play it first to know or read a guide" because the first time you wil not know wtf to do to deal with enemy/boss moves and situations).

[Kamakura]

I can't agree the base game bosses were bad, I had a lot of fun with them, and the game in general, while kinda too big, was a great time. I have the opposite feeling for the DLC though, as there weren't any bosses I liked to fight (Not counting the smaller human sized ones), and I think the map is too big, but with not remotely enough interesting stuff to justify the exploration. I was getting pissed at finding cookbooks and entirely useless items lol

[Ceciliantas]

EF_Neo1st eredeti hozzászólása:

Rakshasa eredeti hozzászólása:

I agree with you OP and even worse is that it's not just the bosses. While I was replaying the story on a new character that I made specifically for the DLC I noticed an absurd number of, "deaths due to being tricked," that only after playing the game or using a guide could you avoid.

Part of playing is that, no guide needed.

Rakshasa eredeti hozzászólása:

Remember that butterfly you see on the ledge that drops from beneath you after going through the four belfry way-gate? ...That death really stuck with me because it was early in the game and I lost a rune arc for no fault of my own. The entire game is full of these.

Honestly, thaat is more on you being careless.

Rakshasa eredeti hozzászólása:

Ambushes placed around important items or enemies guarding pivotal locations makes sense but some of these, "tricks" are a lazy and poor way to make the game more difficult.

Ambushes can be avoided if you pay attention to your surroundings and dont just get through places or enter locations without checking for stuff. THIS is literally core part of every single Souls games and souls-like games.

Rakshasa eredeti hozzászólása:

I still think that this game is a 6/10 as a long-term Fromsoft enjoyer.

I dont agree but that is also my opinion and I dont know how you complain about those 3 things you mentioned on your own post as a "long term Fromsoftare enjoyer", or you somehow managed to skip at least 80% of these games? (Because literally 80% of Dark Souls 1/2/3 is around tricky deaths or ambushes or "having to play it first to know or read a guide" because the first time you wil not know wtf to do to deal with enemy/boss moves and situations).

Stop shilling.

[Lychee]

Talilover eredeti hozzászólása:

And define "overall boss quality" because overall could mean the 165 encounters Elden Ring considers bosses and no way in hell is that anything but awful quality, and if you limit it to the 16 or so "real bosses" it's still a lot of valleys and few peaks.

I consider the Remembrance bosses when talking about 'the' Elden Ring bosses, of which I don't think a single one is bad. Some are boring, but they don't make me wish that they weren't in the game. The DLC has a few that I do hate, but it is mostly ok.

I wouldn't say that I despise any DS3 bosses, but I can only really think of around 7 that I consider really good. In my opinion, both games have good (main) boss quality, but I prefer Elden Ring. Looking back saying 'really terrible' was unfair, I don't agree with that after giving it some more thought.

About the combat systems being different, what I meant was the gameplay rather than the player movement/attacks, my bad. Bosses in ER have longer chains, some are way faster, etc.

About bosses using the Sekiro combat system? I think it just seems that way because so many Elden Ring bosses are really quick. Rellana, is definitely a Sekiro-style boss (try fighting her with the deflect tear and you'll understand), but a boss like Messmer isn't.