They should get rid of Dodge Rolling and I-frames.

[Tentacule Un Seigneur]

For their next game at least.

They would have to find different ways to balance combat if nothing you did made you invincible (Would also make a bit more sense, I can't help but find it absurd dodge rolling through dragon fire protects you from it).

I mean, if a person wearing full plate armor tried to roll in it......I wonder how many of their limbs would still remain unbroken by the time they finished.

But yes, I think the whole "Dodge rolling makes you invincible" should be replaced with more realistic dodging or guarding. Like if you are a light character, you could leap to either side or backwards to dodge (actually physically dodge) attacks.

[Tentacule Un Seigneur]

Originally posted by Bug Guy:

Didnt this thread come up before in a different format? If I remember it boiled down to 1 person saying "I dont like the way rolling looks, it breaks the immersion of the cool fantasy RPG. I wish it looked more like the Sekiro dash". Except they used "rolling in armor is impossible" or "rolling with a sword will kill you" as an excuse for them simply not liking it until 80 or some comments went by and everyone eventually realized the person was just being really stubborn despite being given dozens of proofs of concept to the contrary.

This really feels like a situation where someone walks into an asian restaurant and complains about the chopsticks. But as it turns out; Theyve always had chopsticks, they are always going to have chopsticks, you knew chopsticks were going to be there, and most people are fine with using the chopsticks (in fact many people enjoy using chopsticks). Chopsticks dont have to make sense to you the consumer, theyre a part of what the owners want. And they offer other options instead if they dont fit your fancy (in this metaphor, this means the fact that you can play with shields)

That parallel does not make sense.
Of course a oriental restaurant would use chopsticks, as it is part of the culinary tradition in a fair number of such countries, and silverware originated as a western tradition. As long as you look into the history at all it makes quite a bit of sense.

This is more a matter of a restaurant requiring you to eat by lifting the bowl, and requiring you phase your lips through the bottom of the bowl to eat. You see people doing it, but there is no explanation on how it works, and it looks weird having the people fuse their faces with the bottom of their food bowls.

If they are going to make you phase through attacks, it would make more sense to use some in world mechanic or such, like making you become a spirit for a moment, or something like the new "Miriam's Vanishing. Instead of just rolling into a giant sword and passing through it without any explanation.

[Lu2]

Originally posted by Naewyng:

Originally posted by Lu2:

play dark souls 2 . roll spamming and sloppy play can be easily punished there

Not to mention that you can sort of have a non-iframe roll if you hack your agility to 50 :)))

Also it's a pity they didn't use the rolling animation from ds2 going forward, it's the only one that looks remotely realistic (it was mo capped). The rolling animation (light roll) from ds1, ds3 and elden ring just looks wrong. If you look at it frame by frame, there's literally a bit of gravity defiance going on, and also looks like the character starts rolling even before they hit the ground xD

It's a REALLY bad animation, I don't know why they just kept going forward with it.

with dark souls remaster lose ankles physics bug . it looks even more ridicilous

[OgichiGame]

So we're going back to Full Unga Bunga Havel strats

[chalkywhite]

I don't get why other players want to strict the way others play a game you don't like dodge rolls don't fxxking use it. but no they need a thread to say get rid of something in the game just like summons you don't need to use them if you do not like it.

[Bricky strong]

Originally posted by Tentacule Un Seigneur:

For their next game at least.

They would have to find different ways to balance combat if nothing you did made you invincible (Would also make a bit more sense, I can't help but find it absurd dodge rolling through dragon fire protects you from it).

I mean, if a person wearing full plate armor tried to roll in it......I wonder how many of their limbs would still remain unbroken by the time they finished.

But yes, I think the whole "Dodge rolling makes you invincible" should be replaced with more realistic dodging or guarding. Like if you are a light character, you could leap to either side or backwards to dodge (actually physically dodge) attacks.

I wouldn't mind if there was no roll and you had to use your shield more BUT people would get so upset. Look how upset people got with small changes to animations and parry mechanics in DS2, which I thought was fine....
When I first played DemS when it first came out, I couldn't believe you were supposed to roll through everything. I was using that purple flame shield and a winged spear, then I found out on the wiki that you're supposed to roll. lol, now I'm so used to it.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Tentacule Un Seigneur:

Originally posted by Naewyng:

https://youtu.be/qzTwBQniLSc

That just shows them rolling once (And only a bit faster than a fat roll), the question he asked was about rolling repeatedly over a extended period, which seems much more unlikely. Remember, you have to show evidence that it is possible to Roll "spam" (As in do it again and again for a fair duration of time).

99 END with taliamans allow lightroll with full heavy armor + not heavy weapon.

[Naewyng]

Originally posted by Lu2:

Originally posted by Naewyng:

Not to mention that you can sort of have a non-iframe roll if you hack your agility to 50 :)))

Also it's a pity they didn't use the rolling animation from ds2 going forward, it's the only one that looks remotely realistic (it was mo capped). The rolling animation (light roll) from ds1, ds3 and elden ring just looks wrong. If you look at it frame by frame, there's literally a bit of gravity defiance going on, and also looks like the character starts rolling even before they hit the ground xD

It's a REALLY bad animation, I don't know why they just kept going forward with it.

with dark souls remaster lose ankles physics bug . it looks even more ridicilous

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that, but now I remember how derpy that looks xD

[Nauct]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by Nauct:

Yeah they should make parry like Lies of P and just have like a short distance bloodborne dodge that doesn't have iframes, but you can avoid attacks by avoiding the actual hitbox.

No they should make parry like at The Surge 2, directional parry.
You can also dodge here by dodging the hitboxes, iframes are an extra.

That makes me wanna try The Surge 2. Sounds cool, like For Honor

[UnholyDentist]

Dodge rolling would not be possible in heavy armor, a full sleeve chain mail alone weights around 40 lbs, now add the full plate set with curiass, bascinet helmet, and some plate boots with leather in-lining, gauntlets, and don't forget the gambeson and clothing underneath. Then of course, weapon and shield. Some of these knights fully equipped would end up being stuck on the ground once fallen over, death from drowning was a common death for heavy armored soldiers. The weight takes away mobility almost completely but in turn provides incredible protection on medieval warfare, it was worth it.

This is only a fantasy game and Mr. Miyazaki's team simply wanted this sort of gameplay, so the solution to prevent being made a pancake each time a giant boss attacks, was dodge rolling. It has worked for over a decade and I think they keep using it as 'it just works' and people like it anyway mentality. I would like to see some innovation in that aspect too, but making a new game as extensive and complex as Elden Ring is already a great deal of achievement, not redoing the combat mechanics for their souls combat games is something we can forgive for I believe.

[Nauct]

Originally posted by UnholyDentist:

Dodge rolling would not be possible in heavy armor, a full sleeve chain mail alone weights around 40 lbs, now add the full plate set with curiass, bascinet helmet, and some plate boots with leather in-lining, gauntlets, and don't forget the gambeson and clothing underneath. Then of course, weapon and shield. Some of these knights fully equipped would end up being stuck on the ground once fallen over, death from drowning was a common death for heavy armored soldiers. The weight takes away mobility almost completely but in turn provides incredible protection on medieval warfare, it was worth it.

This is only a fantasy game and Mr. Miyazaki's team simply wanted this sort of gameplay, so the solution to prevent being made a pancake each time a giant boss attacks, was dodge rolling. It has worked for over a decade and I think they keep using it as 'it just works' and people like it anyway mentality. I would like to see some innovation in that aspect too, but making a new game as extensive and complex as Elden Ring is already a great deal of achievement, not redoing the combat mechanics for their souls combat games is something we can forgive for I believe.

A compete set of plate armor only weighs like 40 lbs, plus chainmail, and the weight is distributed over your whole frame. If you've ever worn any you know it's not a big deal, especially if you're a fully grown in shape man. You can for sure roll around like a clown no problem

[Titan]

Originally posted by Nauct:

Yeah they should make parry like Lies of P and just have like a short distance bloodborne dodge that doesn't have iframes, but you can avoid attacks by avoiding the actual hitbox.

The bloodborne dodge has I-frames though

[Nauct]

Originally posted by Titan:

Originally posted by Nauct:

Yeah they should make parry like Lies of P and just have like a short distance bloodborne dodge that doesn't have iframes, but you can avoid attacks by avoiding the actual hitbox.

The bloodborne dodge has I-frames though

Bro I meant like a dash style dodge instead of a roll. I said "that doesn't have iframes"

[ErikTheRed]

Originally posted by Nauct:

Originally posted by FreudsHedgeHog:

Play Sekiro then

Parry too busted in Sekiro. Lies of P is what he should play

Lies of P dodge literally has I frames

[Hikaru]

Originally posted by Nauct:

Originally posted by Titan:

The bloodborne dodge has I-frames though

Bro I meant like a dash style dodge instead of a roll. I said "that doesn't have iframes"

Look at the frame data of bloodborne "rolls" lol. It's the exact same as dark souls with a different animation.

"Consecutive BB forward dashes are 3 frames faster than DkS3 rolls. Consecutive BB bone forward dashes are 5 frames faster than DkS3 rolls. Both dashes have 2 frames and 5 frames less i-frames respectively than DkS3 rolls." marginal difference but pretty much the same.

[UnholyDentist]

Originally posted by Nauct:

Originally posted by UnholyDentist:

Dodge rolling would not be possible in heavy armor, a full sleeve chain mail alone weights around 40 lbs, now add the full plate set with curiass, bascinet helmet, and some plate boots with leather in-lining, gauntlets, and don't forget the gambeson and clothing underneath. Then of course, weapon and shield. Some of these knights fully equipped would end up being stuck on the ground once fallen over, death from drowning was a common death for heavy armored soldiers. The weight takes away mobility almost completely but in turn provides incredible protection on medieval warfare, it was worth it.

This is only a fantasy game and Mr. Miyazaki's team simply wanted this sort of gameplay, so the solution to prevent being made a pancake each time a giant boss attacks, was dodge rolling. It has worked for over a decade and I think they keep using it as 'it just works' and people like it anyway mentality. I would like to see some innovation in that aspect too, but making a new game as extensive and complex as Elden Ring is already a great deal of achievement, not redoing the combat mechanics for their souls combat games is something we can forgive for I believe.

A compete set of plate armor only weighs like 40 lbs, plus chainmail, and the weight is distributed over your whole frame. If you've ever worn any you know it's not a big deal, especially if you're a fully grown in shape man. You can for sure roll around like a clown no problem

When I worn a full plate with chain mail that covers every part including the coif. It was closer to 60 pounds altogether, without shield and weapon. I'd imagine there would have been a massive divergence from smith to smith in weight of the plates and chainmail, plus people in medieval era used to be substantially shorter with smaller frame, so probably what you are saying is true and the whole gear weighted around 40 lbs. I didn't try to roll in it, but sitting down on ground and getting up the plates don't like to stay in place much and the chain likes to twist around the body unless very close fit. The armor would have to be a very close fit design with intricate sleeves and pivots to ensure every piece stays and rotates without twisting and misplacement during rolls. I don't think they ever designed medieval armor for dodge rolling, but perhaps it could be done.