Do you guys think Fromsoft will eventually go too far with difficulty?

[Broken Banana]

I've been thinking about this for a while now and obviously the dlc's difficulty was the biggest part of the conversation around it. Every new souls type game From puts out, they up the ante in terms of challenge, it's always been that way. Back in the day, the Maneaters from Demons' Souls were the hardest thing out there and now most early game Elden Ring bosses are far more demanding.

The question I'm curious to get other people's takes on is do you think From is getting to a point where the difficulty cannot be reasonably increased without major changes to the combat? The idea that if From continues to use this trend of making each subsequent game faster and more difficult than the last, they'll eventually hit a point where the difficulty gets genuinely unreasonable. I ask because for me personally there were a few bosses I felt were pushing it in the dlc, and we're seeing the biggest backlash towards the difficulty for these games currently. Not saying I think it's too hard or not currently, but what do you think?

[BingusDingus]

Depends what you mean by difficulty. There's ways to make something difficult and still be fun, and then there's ways to make something difficult and just be frustrating. They have already heavily started to dip their legs in frustrating difficulty by making it so bosses zoom around like jets making your camera go ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, putting so many lights and particle effects on screen that you cannot even see, making it so bosses have insanely long combos that even a single hit can remove a large chunk of your health and making it so everything had tons of AOE and multi-phase AOE attacks.

Bosses used to be more fair, in the sense where you could read what they were doing, now you pretty much have to die enough times that you can do it all on instinct because your brain has broken the boss down into an exact mathematical formula, it's just not fun.

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Originally posted by Porcelain:

Originally posted by Knavenformed:

Do you play all bosses without lock on for real?

You're not suppose to hard lock so yeah

then why is it in the game?
i know you're supposed to swap on and off (because if you don't you get issues like the camera spinning 360 because its bad) but that doesn't make it less clunky, that makes it more clunky.

[BingusDingus]

Originally posted by Porcelain:

Originally posted by Knavenformed:

Do you play all bosses without lock on for real?

You're not suppose to hard lock so yeah

You are supposed to hard lock. If they didn't want you to use the lock on feature it wouldn't be in the game and your attack would swing towards wherever your camera is pointing instead of where your character is facing.

The camera sucks, this isn't something controversial or a ground breaking discovery, i have yet to play a single Soulslike with a good camera, but Elden Ring by far has the worst camera for boss fights simply because the bosses fly around like crazy.

EDIT: Literally some bosses break if you are not locked onto them.

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Originally posted by zero:

Originally posted by Archdeacon Monseigneur:

there's a reason people refer to the camera as "the secret boss".
its objectively garbage.
the camera is the main culprit of the difficulty in this game.
i legit had it do repeated 360 spins while i was standing underneath Astel's head one time.
infuriating ♥♥♥♥.

i agree, the camera could use some work, still not a measure of game difficulty, anything else?

Radahn.
Radahn is the definition of BS.
i beat him, didn't have a good time.
every time i am summoned for him its a loss for one reason or another.
because he is overtuned.
everything from numbers to move set.
too much teleporting in and out in an instant.
clunky player controls, forget about buffing mid fight, you'll die if you try because he'll teleport into your face and unleash the wrath of a thousand suns.

he's pretty easy with no summons (easy is a relative term, he is by no means easy, just easier), but as a co-op enjoyer (and the host ALWAYS summons 2) he is unreasonably hard because he gets scaled up in difficulty tenfold.

[LexAnimex]

No because games are getting easier/more mainstream. You have fast travel, every 5 steps is a checkpoint and you have spirit ashes.

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Originally posted by Patrick Swayze:

The game is not difficult if you collect fragments, use a shield, and spirit summons.

i did gather all the fragments, i am at maximum upgrades and the final boss scoffs at that.
the only way to realisitcally beat him is using a greatshield and cheese him with bleed pokes.

[Todd Howard]

Originally posted by Archdeacon Monseigneur:

Originally posted by Porcelain:

You're not suppose to hard lock so yeah

then why is it in the game?
i know you're supposed to swap on and off (because if you don't you get issues like the camera spinning 360 because its bad) but that doesn't make it less clunky, that makes it more clunky.

For long periods of aiming.
The camera controls are entirely up to the player. How they utilize it is up to them as well, that includes hard locking and making movement harder. Locking on prevents you from moving in certain directions to escape attacks and knowing how to properly space moves on your attacks and the boss' attacks is vital in controlling the fights.

Probably the best example is to look at the fight as a real sword duel. You know that distance and not having tunnel vision is key fundamentals. It's especially prevalent when you are dealing with a very mobile opponent in game and in real. If the boss throws an AOE attack at you, you will usually perform an unlock to space it out so you maintain control over the fight. You never want the boss to gain the control.

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Originally posted by Porcelain:

Originally posted by Archdeacon Monseigneur:

then why is it in the game?
i know you're supposed to swap on and off (because if you don't you get issues like the camera spinning 360 because its bad) but that doesn't make it less clunky, that makes it more clunky.

For long periods of aiming.
The camera controls are entirely up to the player. How they utilize it is up to them as well, that includes hard locking and making movement harder. Locking on prevents you from moving in certain directions to escape attacks and knowing how to properly space moves on your attacks and the boss' attacks is vital in controlling the fights.

Probably the best example is to look at the fight as a real sword duel. You know that distance and not having tunnel vision is key fundamentals. It's especially prevalent when you are dealing with a very mobile opponent in game and in real. If the boss throws an AOE attack at you, you will usually perform an unlock to space it out so you maintain control over the fight. You never want the boss to gain the control.

man you really gonna die on this hill?
this is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cope bro, the camera is terrible and nothing you say will make it not terrible.

[akakiryuu]

Originally posted by Archdeacon Monseigneur:

Originally posted by Porcelain:

You're not suppose to hard lock so yeah

then why is it in the game?
i know you're supposed to swap on and off (because if you don't you get issues like the camera spinning 360 because its bad) but that doesn't make it less clunky, that makes it more clunky.

you are supposed to lock on, otherwise the camera is not fast enough to keep up with the enemies jumping across the arena and hitting you with aoes. Bayle w/o lock on will jump behind you and attack right after with at least 2 different moves requiring two different roll timings. w/o lock on you have no time to move your thumb from the dodge to camera then dodge again. and we are only talking about melee here, what about magic builds? all enemies have gap closing moves and its impossible to stay out of range to kill any enemy that doesnt die in one hit.

stop stating falsities as facts.

[nora]

nope, people complaining here just suck at the game is all

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Originally posted by akakiryuu:

Originally posted by Archdeacon Monseigneur:

then why is it in the game?
i know you're supposed to swap on and off (because if you don't you get issues like the camera spinning 360 because its bad) but that doesn't make it less clunky, that makes it more clunky.

you are supposed to lock on, otherwise the camera is not fast enough to keep up with the enemies jumping across the arena and hitting you with aoes. Bayle w/o lock on will jump behind you and attack right after with at least 2 different moves requiring two different roll timings. w/o lock on you have no time to move your thumb from the dodge to camera then dodge again. and we are only talking about melee here, what about magic builds? all enemies have gap closing moves and its impossible to stay out of range to kill any enemy that doesnt die in one hit.

stop stating falsities as facts.

i know you're SUPPOSED to.
reality is very different from that.
if you keep the camera locked on 100% of the time you're gonna end up screwing yourself over.
not sure if you misquoted or something... i'm the guy saying the camera is bad - specifically when locked on.

[Brma]

I'm kinda sick of this. The ONLY hard boss was the last one. Literally. He wasn't any harder than Midir when I first encountered him. I literally two handed bloodhound fanged the entire game. No blocking. No cheese. Just good old fashioned soulslike fun. I know it gets thrown aruond a lot but yall need to get good. He made Elden Ring too easy now casuals are crying because it's actually challenging again.

[Todd Howard]

Originally posted by BingusDingus:

Originally posted by Porcelain:

You're not suppose to hard lock so yeah

You are supposed to hard lock. If they didn't want you to use the lock on feature it wouldn't be in the game and your attack would swing towards wherever your camera is pointing instead of where your character is facing.

The camera sucks, this isn't something controversial or a ground breaking discovery, i have yet to play a single Soulslike with a good camera, but Elden Ring by far has the worst camera for boss fights simply because the bosses fly around like crazy.

EDIT: Literally some bosses break if you are not locked onto them.

I don't think you understand my point. Locking on is fine, staying locked on is not. This is a bad habit and prohibits movement and spacing. If you are using the camera for not what it is intended for yeah you can say it sucks.

[Archdeacon Monseigneur]

Originally posted by Brma:

I'm kinda sick of this. The ONLY hard boss was the last one. Literally. He wasn't any harder than Midir when I first encountered him. I literally two handed bloodhound fanged the entire game. No blocking. No cheese. Just good old fashioned soulslike fun. I know it gets thrown aruond a lot but yall need to get good. He made Elden Ring too easy now casuals are crying because it's actually challenging again.

the last boss also happens to be the particular boss everyone has a problem with.
nobody talks about messmer, or the ghostflame dragons, because they aren't unreasonably BS like the final boss is.

[DragonSoundxSG]

Originally posted by Porcelain:

Originally posted by DragonSoundxSG:

They did with the DLC bosses.

With a few exceptions, they don't feel right. That's the best way I can put it.

The DLC bosses are more than easy if you use spirit summons. They're easier than fighting Gwyn

They are def easier solo with summons, I agree. Co op inflates their HP to a ridiculous degree.