Scadu fragments ruin the core idea behind Souls Games

[Kalvix]

Now hear me out, as I'm sure some people will already be saying thats a huge over the top statement to make about 1 change to the game BUT it's actually kinda true. One of the big reasons that Souls games have never had a difficulty mode has been that by doing so, it creates a more shared sense of accomplishment, when you say you managed to beat a boss, people know you had a very similar experience to them, especially if you had a similar RL, which most people will.

But have you noticed with the DLC it's become a common question when people complain about a boss... "oh but how many scadu do you have?". Scadu have more or less become the difficulty modes we didn't want, separating peoples experience of the game. If you don't explore every nook and cranny for them you'll be finding it way harder, if you do search them all out and leave a boss till you'd got some more it becomes a lot easier.

This difference feels even greater than the effect RL and weapon upgrades, as its a given you'll have a +25 by end-game, and by the time you hit RL150 your build is already pretty optimised, so getting more levels becomes more about more and more options than doing more and more damage or taking less.

These Scadu are separating us all out into how many ranks of it did you have before you fought a boss. And honestly I'm getting kinda tired of "oh you don't have enough Scadu, come back later", as in the base game I never found the issue was "oh your RL is to low, come back later" as it was easy to more or less keep up in RLs, but Scadu if you don't explore the boring open world enough you'll get left behind.

So ye, the scadus while an interesting idea, are the worst thing to ever happen to a souls game.

[ZTL-Altima]

Автор сообщения: SuperMrSkully

Автор сообщения: ZTL-Altima

Scadu mechanic is not bad for Souls games, it's sh*t overall game design. Very disappointing a powerhouse in gameplay like FS make this.

I've got bad news for you, it's not the FromSoft you knew. Most quit after Elden Ring was released, they even lost the lady who did the music for their games.

I know about she leaving to work as freelancer. Don't know about any other key member leaving.

[Sonnenbank]

Автор сообщения: Kalvix

So you decided to respond without reading, good job.

Why would i read an essay of someone who opens with a plain wrong statement ?
He does not understand the very core of what he wants to discuss.

And your Malenia example is also wrong.
The difference between fighting Malenia with a level 10 Tiche or Mimic and not using summons at all is not "marginal" its like playing a different game !
I have done Malenia with all kinds of builds, solo and with summons.
the difficulty ranges from 1/10 with Tiche or MImic to 9.5/10 when i fought her level 1 with +0 weapon using double bleed speers. Not even remotly similar experience

[SpottedHare]

I think you have to remember Er has the highest fake difficult curve of all their game, you know where mobs gain health and damage to make them selves "harder" also frequently called fake difficulty, of something like 22 time more hp at the end. For reference Demons souls, the game soft desperately doesn't want to admit their just copying over and over, had a factor of only 3 time more health. Like it or not soft has become ever more dependent on the fake difficulty curve and the grind associated with it to pad out their games and use as their "get out of having to think to hard about balancing" free card. I mean you would have to be delusion to not remember how soft had to rush out wack a mole nerf for like 3 months with the base game launch, then pull a COD and use the player base as beta tester for a year while they effectively buffed everything for each update.

now look at the dlc, you clearly don't want a repeat of two years ago where player found in less then a day a build that could be picked up with only a few level of start and could sunlock and dps down all the bosses inducing the last one. you need to get ahead of the player base somehow, this parasitic leveling system is the solution. A mean by which they can tune damage and health values so high it only the most extreme outliers of players that can avoid using them slowing player from just pulling a ER or Ac6 where the only skill you need it can you tap the trigger likes its Mario party.

do not expect soft to come up with better or more streamlined system, they got away with it so now they will just keep pushing this kind of system for as long as they can.

[Rotunderance Prime]

Автор сообщения: Kalvix

Now hear me out, as I'm sure some people will already be saying thats a huge over the top statement to make about 1 change to the game BUT it's actually kinda true. One of the big reasons that Souls games have never had a difficulty mode has been that by doing so, it creates a more shared sense of accomplishment, when you say you managed to beat a boss, people know you had a very similar experience to them, especially if you had a similar RL, which most people will.

But have you noticed with the DLC it's become a common question when people complain about a boss... "oh but how many scadu do you have?". Scadu have more or less become the difficulty modes we didn't want, separating peoples experience of the game. If you don't explore every nook and cranny for them you'll be finding it way harder, if you do search them all out and leave a boss till you'd got some more it becomes a lot easier.

This difference feels even greater than the effect RL and weapon upgrades, as its a given you'll have a +25 by end-game, and by the time you hit RL150 your build is already pretty optimised, so getting more levels becomes more about more and more options than doing more and more damage or taking less.

These Scadu are separating us all out into how many ranks of it did you have before you fought a boss. And honestly I'm getting kinda tired of "oh you don't have enough Scadu, come back later", as in the base game I never found the issue was "oh your RL is to low, come back later" as it was easy to more or less keep up in RLs, but Scadu if you don't explore the boring open world enough you'll get left behind.

So ye, the scadus while an interesting idea, are the worst thing to ever happen to a souls game.

ds2 adaptability would like a word, so not the first time...

Also have you seen the hosts that summon? Dear god they dont even know how to avoid, they have zero situational awareness. Dont get me started on the drop boss where they cant even stay alive long enough for us to drop down to them. Frankly if they have hardly any blessings, I bail out. I am not going to waste my time with idiots.

[Mike]

The problem I have with people complaining about the scadutree fragments is where was the complaining in the base game for golden Seeds, sacred tears, weapon upgrades,...etc? When those are practically the same system as in the DLC?

You can literally make the SAME argument for the base game because if you ignore all tears, seeds and weapon upgrades the game will be a LOT harder, but if you collect and max out your healing, and max out your weapon, you will have a much more easier time.

The two systems are literally the SAME with one being divided up in multiple items to boost power, and other combining all of them into one with increases overall power/defense.

I have my issues with ER, but complaining about a system that has been in the base game since launch and acting like its ONLY an issue in the DLC is strange to me.

[Cacomistle]

Автор сообщения: Mike

The problem I have with people complaining about the scadutree fragments is where was the complaining in the base game for golden Seeds, sacred tears, weapon upgrades,...etc? When those are practically the same system as in the DLC?

You can literally make the SAME argument for the base game because if you ignore all tears, seeds and weapon upgrades the game will be a LOT harder, but if you collect and max out your healing, and max out your weapon, you will have a much more easier time.

The two systems are literally the SAME with one being divided up in multiple items to boost power, and other combining all of them into one with increases overall power/defense.

I have my issues with ER, but complaining about a system that has been in the base game since launch and acting like its ONLY an issue in the DLC is strange to me.

Sacred tears are easily visible on the map. Churches are buildings, and you can tell where the buildings are on the map.

I didn't pick up all the golden seeds, but I don't feel it makes much of a difference. Having 1-2 fewer flasks isn't entirely irrelevant, but its not a big deal. Most of them were also along natural paths, whereas the dlc kind of just doesn't have natural paths because the map is too convoluted.

I didn't complain about weapon upgrades because I just looked up where the bell bearings are. Getting 4 bell bearings takes much less time than getting 50 scadutree fragments. And the somber ones I just found naturally, without going out of my way at all.

Overall though, I do think weapon upgrades are a dumb system. I think the idea that I can only try out so many weapons or I'll run out of ancient smithing stones is stupid, and I stuck with the bloodhounds fang throughout the vast majority of my first playthrough not because I loved the weapon so much, but because it was too much effort to go find more somber stones for another weapon.

[Mike]

Автор сообщения: Cacomistle

Автор сообщения: Mike

The problem I have with people complaining about the scadutree fragments is where was the complaining in the base game for golden Seeds, sacred tears, weapon upgrades,...etc? When those are practically the same system as in the DLC?

You can literally make the SAME argument for the base game because if you ignore all tears, seeds and weapon upgrades the game will be a LOT harder, but if you collect and max out your healing, and max out your weapon, you will have a much more easier time.

The two systems are literally the SAME with one being divided up in multiple items to boost power, and other combining all of them into one with increases overall power/defense.

I have my issues with ER, but complaining about a system that has been in the base game since launch and acting like its ONLY an issue in the DLC is strange to me.

Sacred tears are easily visible on the map. Churches are buildings, and you can tell where the buildings are on the map.

I didn't pick up all the golden seeds, but I don't feel it makes much of a difference. Having 1-2 fewer flasks isn't entirely irrelevant, but its not a big deal.

I didn't complain about weapon upgrades because I just looked up where the bell bearings are. Getting 4 bell bearings takes much less time than getting 50 scadutree fragments.

So you literally did nothing to explain why they are different systems, besides one takes a little bit longer to get. If people don't like the system thats fine, but they must have also hated the system in the base game because unless you were going for a no heal challenge run where you get no upgrades you will have just as much of a hard time getting through content as you would in the DLC if you don't get any scadu fragments.

[BingusDingus]

I actually agree, they directly punish those that would rather focus on the main path. The base game had Golden Seeds and Crystal Tears but for the most part they were concentrated in places you'd either come across naturally through following the main path or in obvious landmarks such as churches, tiny Erdtrees and so on. Even the odd few that were placed in dungeons where almost all in the larger ones.

The scadutree fragments are scattered everywhere, some in pretty obscure spots, like in a corner of the abyssal woods, a place that's mostly empty so people likely wouldn't even bother to explore.

It wouldn't of been so bad if the scavenger hunt was fun, but it's not, you'll come across barely anything during your time exploring in the DLC. It's the worst part of the DLC by far, half the map is nearly barren, some is entirely barren like the fingerprint ruines, and sprinkled in the far corners of some of these barren areas are things you actually might want.

Though i will say one thing, the Scadutree fragments are not the worst, the Sacred Spirit ashes are far worse. I still never found them all, even after i went back and followed a guide.

[Cacomistle]

Автор сообщения: Mike

Автор сообщения: Cacomistle

Sacred tears are easily visible on the map. Churches are buildings, and you can tell where the buildings are on the map.

I didn't pick up all the golden seeds, but I don't feel it makes much of a difference. Having 1-2 fewer flasks isn't entirely irrelevant, but its not a big deal.

I didn't complain about weapon upgrades because I just looked up where the bell bearings are. Getting 4 bell bearings takes much less time than getting 50 scadutree fragments.

So you literally did nothing to explain why they are different systems, besides one takes a little bit longer to get. If people don't like the system thats fine, but they must have also hated the system in the base game because unless you were going for a no heal challenge run where you get no upgrades you will have just as much of a hard time getting through content as you would in the DLC if you don't get any scadu fragments.

Yes, one of them takes more effort to get. That is the difference.

I don't care about things that don't effect me. The sacred tear system didn't affect me, cause they took very little effort to get. The golden seeds didn't affect me, because simply not getting all of them didn't have a noticeable penalty. The weapon smithing didn't affect my first build because I didn't have to search at all to upgrade my first weapon, I just found the stones natuarlly, though I think it was problematic for build variety.

Scadutree fragments I had to search for, so they affected me.

Though in my opinion the real problem is the convoluted map direction of the dlc. I had weird scadutree numbers for a lot of bosses because the exploration is convoluted (namely I had way too few for Rellana, way too many for the Cerulean Coast and that lower area in the north, and I feel like I should have had more in the 8-10 range for messmer than the 13 I fought him with). I looked up how to get places, because I don't want to go search every dungeon or cave because they link to 1/2 of the map that I can't access in a straight line. I figured I needed to look up fragments after Rellana killed me 30 times, since I'm pretty confident that fight is not meant to be fought on 1 fragment (to be fair, there's like 4 in the starting area, and one of them was in plain sight, so I should have had 2-4), and I don't like searching for stuff.

[Mike]

Автор сообщения: Cacomistle

Автор сообщения: Mike

So you literally did nothing to explain why they are different systems, besides one takes a little bit longer to get. If people don't like the system thats fine, but they must have also hated the system in the base game because unless you were going for a no heal challenge run where you get no upgrades you will have just as much of a hard time getting through content as you would in the DLC if you don't get any scadu fragments.

Yes, one of them takes more effort to get. That is the difference.

I don't care about things that don't effect me. The sacred tear system didn't affect me, cause they took very little effort to get. The golden seeds didn't affect me, because simply not getting all of them didn't have a noticeable penalty. The weapon smithing didn't affect my first build because I didn't have to search at all to upgrade my first weapon, I just found the stones natuarlly, though I think it was problematic for build variety.

Scadutree fragments I had to search for, so they affected me.

Though in my opinion the real problem is the direction of the dlc. I had weird scadutree numbers for a lot of bosses because the exploration is convoluted (namely I had way too few for Rellana, way too many for the Cerulean Coast and that lower area in the north, and I feel like I should have had more in the 8-10 range for messmer than the 13 I fought him with).

So an upgrade system that is not just handed to you like candy is a problem? Its not like all 50 of them are needed to beat the game, in fact I would argue that is dependent on the player, as some will be comfortable with getting half and beating the bosses where as some might need all 50 to do the bosses.

[Cacomistle]

Автор сообщения: Mike

Автор сообщения: Cacomistle

Yes, one of them takes more effort to get. That is the difference.

I don't care about things that don't effect me. The sacred tear system didn't affect me, cause they took very little effort to get. The golden seeds didn't affect me, because simply not getting all of them didn't have a noticeable penalty. The weapon smithing didn't affect my first build because I didn't have to search at all to upgrade my first weapon, I just found the stones natuarlly, though I think it was problematic for build variety.

Scadutree fragments I had to search for, so they affected me.

Though in my opinion the real problem is the direction of the dlc. I had weird scadutree numbers for a lot of bosses because the exploration is convoluted (namely I had way too few for Rellana, way too many for the Cerulean Coast and that lower area in the north, and I feel like I should have had more in the 8-10 range for messmer than the 13 I fought him with).

So an upgrade system that is not just handed to you like candy is a problem? Its not like all 50 of them are needed to beat the game, in fact I would argue that is dependent on the player, as some will be comfortable with getting half and beating the bosses where as some might need all 50 to do the bosses.

Yep. I don't want to search for stuff.

And yeah, I know you don't need all of them. I figured that out when I beat every boss after Rellana (haven't fought Bayle or final boss yet to be fair) in under 5 tries. That's kind of a big part of why I don't like the scadutree system, because ignoring it got me killed 30 times by Rellana and paying attention to it made the messmer fight take 3 minutes.

[Mike]

Автор сообщения: Cacomistle

Автор сообщения: Mike

So an upgrade system that is not just handed to you like candy is a problem? Its not like all 50 of them are needed to beat the game, in fact I would argue that is dependent on the player, as some will be comfortable with getting half and beating the bosses where as some might need all 50 to do the bosses.

Yep. I don't want to search for stuff.

I never ONCE searched ANYTHING on my first playthrough and I found enough fragments to get to +17 which was more then enough to beat all bosses in cluding the final one. So you can give me all the clown awards all you want (or who ever did), but YOU decided to look up all 50 fragments as the game does not require you to have all them to beat it.

Your literally complaining about a choice you made in your playthrough and are acting like the game "forced" you to do it lol.

[Cacomistle]

Автор сообщения: Mike

Автор сообщения: Cacomistle

Yep. I don't want to search for stuff.

I never ONCE searched ANYTHING on my first playthrough and I found enough fragments to get to +17 which was more then enough to beat all bosses in cluding the final one. So you can give me all the clown awards all you want (or who ever did), but YOU decided to look up all 50 fragments as the game does not require you to have all them to beat it.

Your literally complaining about a choice you made in your playthrough and are acting like the game "forced" you to do it lol.

I also don't want to die 30 times to every boss. I died 30 times to Rellana on 1 fragment. So I started searching for more fragments.

Like is this complicated? I feel this is like 1+1=2 level logic here and you're confused about it.

[King of Yugoslavia]

Автор сообщения: Kalvix

Now hear me out, as I'm sure some people will already be saying thats a huge over the top statement to make about 1 change to the game BUT it's actually kinda true. One of the big reasons that Souls games have never had a difficulty mode has been that by doing so, it creates a more shared sense of accomplishment, when you say you managed to beat a boss, people know you had a very similar experience to them, especially if you had a similar RL, which most people will.

But have you noticed with the DLC it's become a common question when people complain about a boss... "oh but how many scadu do you have?". Scadu have more or less become the difficulty modes we didn't want, separating peoples experience of the game. If you don't explore every nook and cranny for them you'll be finding it way harder, if you do search them all out and leave a boss till you'd got some more it becomes a lot easier.

This difference feels even greater than the effect RL and weapon upgrades, as its a given you'll have a +25 by end-game, and by the time you hit RL150 your build is already pretty optimised, so getting more levels becomes more about more and more options than doing more and more damage or taking less.

These Scadu are separating us all out into how many ranks of it did you have before you fought a boss. And honestly I'm getting kinda tired of "oh you don't have enough Scadu, come back later", as in the base game I never found the issue was "oh your RL is to low, come back later" as it was easy to more or less keep up in RLs, but Scadu if you don't explore the boring open world enough you'll get left behind.

So ye, the scadus while an interesting idea, are the worst thing to ever happen to a souls game.

Автор сообщения: John Titor

Автор сообщения: Kalvix

Now hear me out...

No sir. I don't think I will.

tl dr, so I will answer to the title.
scadu fragments are fine. git gud at picking up items from the ground

[Cacomistle]

Автор сообщения: Mike

Автор сообщения: Cacomistle

Yep. I don't want to search for stuff.

I never ONCE searched ANYTHING on my first playthrough and I found enough fragments to get to +17 which was more then enough to beat all bosses in cluding the final one. So you can give me all the clown awards all you want (or who ever did), but YOU decided to look up all 50 fragments as the game does not require you to have all them to beat it.

Your literally complaining about a choice you made in your playthrough and are acting like the game "forced" you to do it lol.

Also I didn't find all 50. I looked up the basic information on how they work, because I'd otherwise for instance never have gone around hitting guys holding pots over their head, or bothered fighting pushover hippos. I found a few based on pictures and stopped bothering after I was easily killing all the minibosses. I got like 13 for messmer, which was honestly overkill.