Question to people who use summons and do not feel guilty about it

[Loopy]

How?

[CourierGoodman]

İlk olarak RtG.Nifaxizzi tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Porcelain tarafından gönderildi:

I wholeheartedly agree; the direction Fromsoft adopted with this iteration is really beneficial and healthy for the games going forward. None of the bosses in Elden Ring are unfair—in fact, they're probably more fair than they've ever been. Gwyn was a nightmare to fight against because his combo string was limited to twos, but his aggression made up for it. Fights like Orphan of Kos reflected the same idea. FromS learned from this mistake and decided to make fights less aggressive and more knowledge based, which is very reflective in Radahn and even Malenia.

I would even venture to suggest that Malenia is the most aggressive boss in the whole entire game, followed by Maliketh and maybe Consort Radahn. Therefore, I find it difficult to comprehend why people are complaining about the DLC's hostility when none of those bosses were even remotely as oppressive as Gwyn lol

What? You think radahn is LESS agressive than orphan of kos?
My man, bring up 1 video of each fight and count how many attacks each of them unleashes in 30 seconds.
I honestly think your memory might be a bit foggy.

Combo strings do not equate to aggression. Aggression is the degree to which they prepare for their next strike. Orphan will attack you without hesitation if you approach him, and his window of opportunity for a pose is much less than Radahn's. In contrast, Orphan will hardly allow you to land any hits, even if Radahn may have dashes that are reasonably easy to avoid once you figure out the pattern. He attacks in some way all the time. The amount of times you can r2 Radahn vs. Orphan is also very telling of this.

[iNERTiA]

İlk olarak Loopy tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak iNERTiA tarafından gönderildi:

Exactly my thoughts, I always find it so weird that people will find some arbitrary thing that makes the game easier and will do everything in their power not to use that thing so they have "bragging rights", but in doing so they ended up using some busted build that makes it so you hardly have to interact with the boss.

Again, not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on people who use those builds, but if you do you have zero ground to be judging others based on their runs. If you are belittling someone for using summons, you better be beating the game rl1 no scadu, or else you need to sit down.

This doesn't make any sense. Summons are the games built in easy mode, this is well established by now. You can use the slippery slope fallacy ("Yea like you're not allowed to roll and heal either right XD") all you want but this is a simple fact. Having AI aggro the boss so you can spam hits on it from the side or back is missing out on an essential experience of the game. People have such insecure and strong reactions to summons criticism because they know it is true deep inside.

Wrong, in the case of older souls games I would agree.

But like for consort radahn specifically, I would put money on the fact that using a greatshield poker build spamming guard counters with no summons is legitimately easier than using summons with a basic katana build or something. Especially considering the fact that NPC summons inflate the boss health like crazy.

I have watched plenty of streamers on their first playthrough and the ones using the greatshield build always win within like 5 attempts. Whereas people using a more basic build with summons will be stuck on it waaaay longer simply because they cant just hold L1 through all the mechanics.

[iNERTiA]

And also, are you really going to sit there and tell me that someone who used the perfume cheese before it was nerfed where you could literally 4 shot radahn had a harder time than someone using a basic weapon build with summons?

Builds make a huge difference in this game, thats just how it is.

[Sgt. Flaw]

İlk olarak Porcelain tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sgt. Flaw tarafından gönderildi:

People are having a problem with positioning...Messmer you need to circle around then dodge when he does that spear drag move and be right behind him to punish...when he does is spinning spear and multistab move you need to move back and roll toward for the one jab he can hit from anywhere lol..then back away roll once then simply walk out of the way when he plunges so you have enough queue to jump or roll his last aoe so you can pumish...the solutions are just more detailed now than simply rolling towards them like in older souls.

It's a fair evolution if you ask me

I wholeheartedly agree; the direction Fromsoft adopted with this iteration is really beneficial and healthy for the games going forward. None of the bosses in Elden Ring are unfair—in fact, they're probably more fair than they've ever been. Gwyn was a nightmare to fight against because his combo string was limited to twos, but his aggression made up for it. Fights like Orphan of Kos reflected the same idea. FromS learned from this mistake and decided to make fights less aggressive and more knowledge based, which is very reflective in Radahn and even Malenia.

I would even venture to suggest that Malenia is the most aggressive boss in the whole entire game, followed by Maliketh and maybe Consort Radahn. Therefore, I find it difficult to comprehend why people are complaining about the DLC's hostility when none of those bosses were even remotely as oppressive as Gwyn lol

Everyone ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about the difficulty of every souls when they were released...they all had different styles of approach for bosses. DS 3 was also unfair when it was released...

The most outrageous probably was Demons Souls to Dark Souls...a lot of the original Demons Souls players hated Dark Souls for their git gud problems...

All I know is you have to approach every iteration like it was your first. Demons Souls scared the ♥♥♥♥ outta me when it was released...but I died humbly numerous times with a smile on my face...I just hold that mentality for every souls because you always have to learn a ton of new ♥♥♥♥ and just because you were a god in DS 3 doesn't mean your not a pleb going into Elden Ring...

[Bricky strong]

I've beat General Radahn solo at rune lvl 11. I just shot him down with poison arrows and road away on my horse, it wasn't too hard.....that's cheese...It was solo. The fire giant I find far more easy solo because I can use the horse.
With friends the Fire Giant is epic.

[CourierGoodman]

İlk olarak Sgt. Flaw tarafından gönderildi:

All I know is you have to approach every iteration like it was your first. Demons Souls scared the ♥♥♥♥ outta me when it was released...but I died humbly numerous times with a smile on my face...I just hold that mentality for every souls because you always have to learn a ton of new ♥♥♥♥ and
Realize that just because you were a god in DS 3 you are still a pleb going into Elden Ring...

DS3 was perhaps the easiest souls game we've ever received. I think many players formed insanely bad habits from that game that they thought would easily transfer to Elden Ring and like you said, "be a god" at Elden Ring. While some of the skills did transfer into the base game, that base game wasn't much harder than DS3's DLC. Not surprising that when ER DLC released people were shocked at how Miyazaki brought back the difficulty to the OG Dark Souls.

[Loopy]

İlk olarak iNERTiA tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Loopy tarafından gönderildi:

This doesn't make any sense. Summons are the games built in easy mode, this is well established by now. You can use the slippery slope fallacy ("Yea like you're not allowed to roll and heal either right XD") all you want but this is a simple fact. Having AI aggro the boss so you can spam hits on it from the side or back is missing out on an essential experience of the game. People have such insecure and strong reactions to summons criticism because they know it is true deep inside.

Wrong, in the case of older souls games I would agree.

But like for consort radahn specifically, I would put money on the fact that using a greatshield poker build spamming guard counters with no summons is legitimately easier than using summons with a basic katana build or something. Especially considering the fact that NPC summons inflate the boss health like crazy.

I have watched plenty of streamers on their first playthrough and the ones using the greatshield build always win within like 5 attempts. Whereas people using a more basic build with summons will be stuck on it waaaay longer simply because they cant just hold L1 through all the mechanics.

As if everyone who doesn't use summons uses a greatshield poke build. This doesn't make any sense.

[☦ Грйсёлдо ☦]

Imagine ridiculing people for playing a game the way they want to lmao

[iNERTiA]

İlk olarak Loopy tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak iNERTiA tarafından gönderildi:

Wrong, in the case of older souls games I would agree.

But like for consort radahn specifically, I would put money on the fact that using a greatshield poker build spamming guard counters with no summons is legitimately easier than using summons with a basic katana build or something. Especially considering the fact that NPC summons inflate the boss health like crazy.

I have watched plenty of streamers on their first playthrough and the ones using the greatshield build always win within like 5 attempts. Whereas people using a more basic build with summons will be stuck on it waaaay longer simply because they cant just hold L1 through all the mechanics.

As if everyone who doesn't use summons uses a greatshield poke build. This doesn't make any sense.

I never said they do lol. My point is that you are implying summons are the most easy mode way to play this game, whereas I disagree with that take. I think builds make a MUCH larger difference with Elden Ring because they introduced mechanics like guard counters that allow you to chain staggers with very little risk.

As far as what you used, it really doesn't matter what you say because you are some random on the internet with no proof of your run. If you were to show me proof that you beat the DLC with some "respectable" build and no summons that would be a different story.

But you just saying "lol I didnt use summons so im better" tells me absolutely nothing about how you actually approached the content.

Again, if this were something like Sekiro and you told me you beat Isshin it would be a different story as there is virtually no way to trivialize that fight, so there are no strings attached.

[RtG.Nifaxizzi]

İlk olarak Porcelain tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak RtG.Nifaxizzi tarafından gönderildi:

What? You think radahn is LESS agressive than orphan of kos?
My man, bring up 1 video of each fight and count how many attacks each of them unleashes in 30 seconds.
I honestly think your memory might be a bit foggy.

Combo strings do not equate to aggression. Aggression is the degree to which they prepare for their next strike. Orphan will attack you without hesitation if you approach him, and his window of opportunity for a pose is much less than Radahn's. In contrast, Orphan will hardly allow you to land any hits, even if Radahn may have dashes that are reasonably easy to avoid once you figure out the pattern. He attacks in some way all the time. The amount of times you can r2 Radahn vs. Orphan is also very telling of this.

Again your memory might be a bit foggy on this, and believe me i am a guy that sunk at least like 30 hours on orphan at this point.
While you are correct in saying that orphan attacks as soon as you enter his reach his recovery time is way longer than you might be remembering, side dodging his overhead attack for a charged backstab is very consistent, you don't even really have to dodge, just walk around really, his AOE explosion also only hits the front, while his spin move has 2 seconds of recovery.

I have to point out also that you can run from orphan and he wont chase you down.

With malenia a lot can be said in that sense as well, while she is equally combo heavy there are not that many gap closers and you can run from her, at which point she enters a "waiting" stage only walking towards you. What makes radahn so aggressive is that he moves waaaay more, you cannot run from him, If you are at close range dodging back wont ever get you far from his next attack, he will never "Miss by distance" which is something that malenia and kos sure do a lot, even during waterfowl. If by any chance you manage to get far from him he will either jump with a big over the head attack and chain it into a combo, will do his spiral gravity shenanigans landing in an explosion or will try to suck you in. There's no "down time" in radahn's fight.

There are videos on the internet of people doing malenia without dodge rolling, or kos without side step. I honestly believe its just impossible to do that with radahn.

[Sgt. Flaw]

İlk olarak Porcelain tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sgt. Flaw tarafından gönderildi:

All I know is you have to approach every iteration like it was your first. Demons Souls scared the ♥♥♥♥ outta me when it was released...but I died humbly numerous times with a smile on my face...I just hold that mentality for every souls because you always have to learn a ton of new ♥♥♥♥ and
Realize that just because you were a god in DS 3 you are still a pleb going into Elden Ring...

DS3 was perhaps the easiest souls game we've ever received. I think many players formed insanely bad habits from that game that they thought would easily transfer to Elden Ring and like you said, "be a god" at Elden Ring. While some of the skills did transfer into the base game, that base game wasn't much harder than DS3's DLC. Not surprising that when ER DLC released people were shocked at how Miyazaki brought back the difficulty to the OG Dark Souls.

DS 3 base game was the definition of artificial difficulty...From just doubled down on amount of bosses you fought at once lol..and if they didn't the boss was easy...besides nameless king who's first phases was camera

I wish I'd played the DLC but after I bought it...my character was deleted and I wasn't gunna play again...every other souls got a minimum of 3 playthrough while DS 3 only got one...I just couldnt stand the map

[CourierGoodman]

İlk olarak ☦ Грйсёлдо ☦ tarafından gönderildi:

Imagine ridiculing people for playing a game the way they want to lmao

Nothing wrong with that, especially if they're using a cheat engine. I think it's fair game to ridicule them for cheating.

[ﾏｿｿｿ ₒ❤]

why do people care about others opinion about how to play a game? are they stupid?

[CourierGoodman]

İlk olarak Sgt. Flaw tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Porcelain tarafından gönderildi:

DS3 was perhaps the easiest souls game we've ever received. I think many players formed insanely bad habits from that game that they thought would easily transfer to Elden Ring and like you said, "be a god" at Elden Ring. While some of the skills did transfer into the base game, that base game wasn't much harder than DS3's DLC. Not surprising that when ER DLC released people were shocked at how Miyazaki brought back the difficulty to the OG Dark Souls.

DS 3 base game was the definition of artificial difficulty...From just doubled down on amount of bosses you fought at once lol..and if they didn't the boss was easy...besides nameless king who's first phases was camera

I wish I'd played the DLC but after I bought it...my character was deleted and I wasn't gunna play again...every other souls got a minimum of 3 playthrough while DS 3 only got one...I just couldnt stand the map

I agree, my favourite fight is the Abyss Watchers but I dread going there simply because of how awful that area is. The map is garbage all around the board however.

The game could have been great but Miyazaki was just too scared to try anything new and stripped away all the core aspects of Dark Souls to make a generic map and insanely unfun to fight bosses.

When the game shines it shines, but often times the flaws of DS3 outweigh the pros.

[General Pepper 4°]

The logic of judging those who use summons is equivalent to calling a cripple weak because he uses a wheelchair instead of becoming strong and using both arms to walk.