Surprised there isn't a "ashes are fine but Mimic Tear is too good" contingent

[Spacesuit Spiff]

This was my coworker's take. I'm a stubborn old fart who doesn't use em, but they honestly look like a lot of fun with all the variety. There's a Second Wind video suggesting that fromsoft is pushing the ashes to migrate toward something more like Monster Hunter coop (which relies on positioning and juggling aggro) instead of dogeroll dodgeroll dodgeroll, but we're all too stubborn for that. A hypothetical version of this game that nerfed the dodge but compensated with ashes could be neat, I might try fatroll with ashes next playthrough to see how it feels.

Interesting to think about.

[BKo]

I might like ashes if there was some strategy to them, but I've tried different ones and the only one that can even survive for 10 seconds with decent DPS is mimic tear.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Originally posted by zero:

well fromsoft is def not going the monhun way (and your explanation of monhun isn't even close to how the game expects you to play, its very little aggro management and a similar 'wait till a good time for bit attacks, poke until then, method')

i think people make mountains out of molehills, spirit ashes are just npc summons for the modern day, in an open world game where not nearly as many bosses will have the chance to have an npc summon like dark souls did.

use em or dont, but its silly to complain about any of them.

Another way to explain it "monhun lets the monsters have big cinematic attacks without expecting you to dodgeroll them". It does that a bunch of ways, one of which is NPC allies for the monster to target instead of you. This video explains it better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTE6o3zGGx0&list=PLUBKwq0XD0uc3-bC1m0IYvbdu8dEX4rd2

Since this is steam I need to clarify that I enjoy the game and this isn't a "wah wah the game is hard and/or game is too easy for other people" thread, I'm interested in where the genre is moving and whether it might find some alternatives to dodgeroll as the magic solution to everything. ER has definitely at least been experimenting in that direction.

[Tim]

If most Spirit Ashes were somewhere between Mimic Tear and everything else in survivability, they'd be a lot more fun. Most Spirit Ashes, even the big knights, get shredded. They're still worth using even if their only function is to make the boss turn away from you two or three times, but yunno... That doesn't fulfill the fantasy of the mechanic for me.

I got really into using Masoleum Knights since so many bosses have low HP but furious attacks. But against the final boss, I couldn't find anything that even lasted halfway as long as Mimic Tear. Spirit Ashes need some way to normalize damage against them, so they don't take the entirety of their health bar in a phase-2 transition attack.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Originally posted by scambammer:

Originally posted by Spacesuit Spiff:

This guy Squirts

what is the recommended gear for a Land Squirt Summoner anyhow?

Selivus set

[Faust Wither]

Originally posted by Spacesuit Spiff:

Originally posted by scambammer:

what is the recommended gear for a Land Squirt Summoner anyhow?

Selivus set

nah it will make the squirt dry.

[scambammer]

Originally posted by Faust Wither:

Originally posted by Spacesuit Spiff:

Selivus set

nah it will make the squirt dry.

[Mccoone]

i dont really see it. If we go off of the DLC fights, the direction they have in mind seems to point more toward the opposite of that methodical, position reliant, combat

[Dr.Abscondus]

I'd love to use more of the ashes, but they're just too squishy. None of them come even close to the toughness of my mimic who also carries a weapon far more powerful than any of the ashes. I'm going to try the Inquisitor Ashes which I just found. It's supposed to be the best of them. We'll see.

[zab]

they are all a mistake
nothing but trash

[Nyu]

maybe someday this community can be as based as nioh2 one.
use everything to destroy.

[Sacred)(Rhaine]

All summons make game much easier, just like coop. For the simple fact that most bosses and enemies are ♥♥♥♥ against multiple targets.

[ZTL-Altima]

All sh*t mechanics tend to also be sh*t to balance.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Originally posted by Mccoone:

i dont really see it. If we go off of the DLC fights, the direction they have in mind seems to point more toward the opposite of that methodical, position reliant, combat

I haven't tried any DLC bosses with ashes yet, but it feels like their relentless attacking is pretty clearly saying "hey we really want you splitting this aggro". It's like a game of chicken with the community where they keep pushing and pushing until we give in and use the "crutches"... is one valid take on it, anyway.

[Persona Au Gratin]

Originally posted by Spacesuit Spiff:

Originally posted by Mccoone:

i dont really see it. If we go off of the DLC fights, the direction they have in mind seems to point more toward the opposite of that methodical, position reliant, combat

I haven't tried any DLC bosses with ashes yet, but it feels like their relentless attacking is pretty clearly saying "hey we really want you splitting this aggro". It's like a game of chicken with the community where they keep pushing and pushing until we give in and use the "crutches"... is one valid take on it, anyway.

Someone was saying "Just use spirit ashes against Radahn" and let me tell you, Scadu 9/Upgrade 10 Jolan and Anna were killed in moments. The thing about that mindset is that if you have a preference or style of play, you still have to face the potential that you have set yourself up for failure and have to rely on other failsafes.

I think when people say "Use summons" they're thinking precisely of Mimic Tear or a certain Black Knife, there's this assumption that they're just brute force solutions.

[Julmara]

the black knife thithe thingy is better than mimic tears in almost all situations