So Melina…

[Dollmaker]

Kinda missed it the first time but Messmer’s Kindling description reads:

“Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire”

I think this pretty much cements Melina is indeed a child of Marika.

This essentially confirms that Radagon and Marika had at least 4 children, Miquella, Malenia, Messmer and Melina.

Melina is probably the weirdest one, specially her hair resembling a combination of the parent’s hair color rather than one of them, and that there’s basically no record of her in neither the base game or the DLC.

Messmer makes sense since his existence was wiped from History by Marika due to his curse of being devoid of light, similarly to the Nameless King in DS for his betrayal.

So her origins are largely still a mystery, specially with her dialogue about Boc’ and how she wonders how it feels to “come from a mother”, this could imply her birth wasn’t natural and might have been artificial, or maybe she lost her memories.

It is kinda frustrating we didn’t got more info though, like why she had a seal on her eye and such.

Another thing worth mentioning is the Minor Erdtree incantation which is only used by Melina (btw if you wonder about the size it was originally gonna be like hers but it caused frame issues so it was reduced to a freaking bush), and the description states nobody but Marika knew of its existence.

It makes me wonder if Radagon knew of Melina, and that maybe Marika created her artificially.

In conclusion, im till confused af.

Fromsoft be Fromsoft lol

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

In conclusion, im till confused af.

Fromsoft be Fromsoft lol

Same, fam... same

[bigbiggaboo]

I would guess Marika put the seal on Melina's like she did with Messmer's eye because she was afraid of the fire powers.

[Persona Au Gratin]

All I know is that moment where you come upon the Shaman Village is the top moment of the entire DLC for me. Sort of like the actual good version of encountering Vendrick in DS2.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by bigbiggaboo:

I would guess Marika put the seal on Melina's like she did with Messmer's eye because she was afraid of the fire powers.

Thats a possibility, but we saw how this didnt really stop her from being able to sacrifice herself to burn the Erdtree.

[Todd Howard]

It seems they purposefully left it ambiguous for Elden Ring 2

[bigbiggaboo]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Originally posted by bigbiggaboo:

I would guess Marika put the seal on Melina's like she did with Messmer's eye because she was afraid of the fire powers.

Thats a possibility, but we saw how this didnt really stop her from being able to sacrifice herself to burn the Erdtree.

Messmer was able to use his fire with the seal and even broke it by himself. Melina would be able to do the same, at least that's I think.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by bigbiggaboo:

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Thats a possibility, but we saw how this didnt really stop her from being able to sacrifice herself to burn the Erdtree.

Messmer was able to use his fire with the seal and even broke it by himself. Melina would be able to do the same, at least that's I think.

But his seal was to contain the serpent.

And Melina's seal never comes undone outside of the Frenzied Flame ending.

[Persona Au Gratin]

The seal Mesmer was given was a seal of Marika, but I think the seal put on Melina was different just based on the mark over her eye. Mesmer could reach in and extract his with his own fingers. Seems like Marika took a different measure with Melina.

[bigbiggaboo]

I think Melina didn't need her seal undone to burn the tree and only undid it to have the strength to kill the lord of frenzy. Her powers could come from something similar to the serpent but all that matters would be that Marika didn't like it and sealed it away.

[LuckyCheshire]

The mark over her eye fits in with the theory that she was the Gloam-Eyed Queen, and that Maliketh gave her that cursemark (it's even claw shaped) after or during defeating her, consigning her to be a wandering spirit. And just like Messmer, she was stricken from the records for her heresy in leading the Godskin cult against the Erdtree.

[GardevoirChan]

they HATE her. They did St Trina and Miquella dirty too. Whyyyy

[Nyah]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Kinda missed it the first time but Messmer’s Kindling description reads:

“Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire”

I think this pretty much cements Melina is indeed a child of Marika.

This essentially confirms that Radagon and Marika had at least 4 children, Miquella, Malenia, Messmer and Melina.

Melina is probably the weirdest one, specially her hair resembling a combination of the parent’s hair color rather than one of them, and that there’s basically no record of her in neither the base game or the DLC.

Messmer makes sense since his existence was wiped from History by Marika due to his curse of being devoid of light, similarly to the Nameless King in DS for his betrayal.

So her origins are largely still a mystery, specially with her dialogue about Boc’ and how she wonders how it feels to “come from a mother”, this could imply her birth wasn’t natural and might have been artificial, or maybe she lost her memories.

It is kinda frustrating we didn’t got more info though, like why she had a seal on her eye and such.

Another thing worth mentioning is the Minor Erdtree incantation which is only used by Melina (btw if you wonder about the size it was originally gonna be like hers but it caused frame issues so it was reduced to a freaking bush), and the description states nobody but Marika knew of its existence.

It makes me wonder if Radagon knew of Melina, and that maybe Marika created her artificially.

In conclusion, im till confused af.

Fromsoft be Fromsoft lol

The bodyless and burned side of her, always bothered me. Now even more.
Burned surely linked to Mesmer or maybe by the exalted flame considering how she hates it, but bodyless, and the dialogue with Boc... makes you wonder... maybe her affliction was being bodyless.
I don't understand why we didnt see her in the dlc.

[Nyah]

Originally posted by LuckyCheshire:

The mark over her eye fits in with the theory that she was the Gloam-Eyed Queen, and that Maliketh gave her that cursemark (it's even claw shaped) after or during defeating her, consigning her to be a wandering spirit. And just like Messmer, she was stricken from the records for her heresy in leading the Godskin cult against the Erdtree.

i like this theory too but if so, how did marika made the gloam eyed queen into her daughter? or the gloam eyed queen intervened in the birth? (they were ennemies and marika defeated her if i'm "correct" :D) or maybe like a curse, the soul of the gloam eyed queen came back in Melina

[LuckyCheshire]

Originally posted by Nyah:

Originally posted by LuckyCheshire:

The mark over her eye fits in with the theory that she was the Gloam-Eyed Queen, and that Maliketh gave her that cursemark (it's even claw shaped) after or during defeating her, consigning her to be a wandering spirit. And just like Messmer, she was stricken from the records for her heresy in leading the Godskin cult against the Erdtree.

i like this theory too but if so, how did marika made the gloam eyed queen into her daughter? or the gloam eyed queen intervened in the birth? (they were ennemies and marika defeated her if i'm "correct" :D) or maybe like a curse, the soul of the gloam eyed queen came back in Melina

Well, as I understand it Marika was popping out children left and right by whatever method for quite a while before actually ascending to the throne. We have quite a bit of lore about her massive campaigns against various enemies like the Fire Giants and, yes, the Godskins, rather like how the Tarnished wanders around beating people up.

So while Marika was still off conquering things, Melina either founded the Godskins or inherited the position of queen from the last leader, and used her innate fire powers to grant the Black Flame to her followers. The Godskins were able to grow incredibly fast using those powers and Marika felt threatened by them, rightly or not. You know how OP the Black Flame is in-game due to its percentage-based damage? Well that's apparently a massively weakened version. So Marika sent Maliketh to go deal with her, and then afterward routed the leaderless remains of the Godskins.

And like I mentioned before, being defeated by Maliketh left Melina with the claw-shaped scar or cursemark over her eye, which was probably supposed to be ironic given her title. And so she barely held on to life as a wandering spirit up until she encountered the Tarnished and then the events of the game happen.

[Haru]

To be honest, I had this discussion with people a lot prior to the DLC but it was always blatantly obvious that Melina was a child of Queen Marika. She states this repeatedly.

What isn't clear is:

- Why she was burned and left without a body

- What role she played prior to meeting the player character

From there on, it's all just theories.

Originally, the Putrescent Knight that we fight before we meet St. Trina, was named Knight of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, or something to that effect. I'm not sure what the implications of that are.

It's entirely possible that while Melina and Messmer are children of Marika, that they're not necessarily children of Radagon, imo, and it never states that either Melina or Messemer are Empyrean. It's entirely possible she had these children with someone else.

With Melina, we can infer that that she was locked in the same secret room where we find her weapon. Why? Don't know. How did she get burned? Don't know.

I think it's definitively connected to this idea of Destined Death, and the Rune of Death, given the Frenzied Flame ending, but it leaves so much room for speculation that it's almost a headache to discuss.

At the moment, I've been playing around with the idea of where the Godskins actually get their skin from. Likely candidates to me are the folks who were butchered for their pot innards. Lots of skin to go around there. But again, idk.

I knew the DLC lore would just add more to confusion and it's definitely irksome to say the least.