Why from think we like bosses than this radan?

[I'm Alpharius and this is a lie]

I wonder if they play their game? Why are the dark souls 3 boses so good and elden ring bosses (on the dlc particularly) so bad designedly, the gameplay feels moore like a stressfully experienced instead of something that have to be played calm and precise being a skilled character and learning from attack patrols give you the award thoose dlc bosses don’t give you, the last boss is the magnificient of this, why do they think this is the kind of experience we want it? I particularly don’t enjoy those bosses, i wonder what do you guys think about those new bosses on the dlc

[Mike]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Originally posted by Mike:

Your WRONG he did a block counter to eat the first attack he did not dodge-roll or i-fram through it as I stated.

No, YOU are wrong. You said the 2nd hit couldn't be dodgerolled. He dodgerolled the 2nd hit. I don't care that he blocked the first one, that's the point being made here. The 2nd hit DOES have a window to dodge through it. YOU are dodgeroll spamming, trying to dodge both the 1st and the 2nd. This is not the only boss in the game with multi-hit attacks in a short timeframe that make dodgerolling suboptimal. Hell the Tree Sentinel in the very beginning of the game has a shield crush that also possesses a shockwave, making it possible to dodgeroll the 1st and get hit by the 2nd.

You said the 2nd hit has no window, I said it does and showed evidence. Deal with it.

OH stop with the overly technical talk. I made it VERY clear it was the 3 hit string as a whole you can't dodge roll NOT specifically the 2nd attack. Of course you can block, parry,..etc the first hit and dodge the 2nd hit BUT you cannot dodge the first hit without talking damage period.

My point from the beginning was that this is the first move in ER where spacing, and dodge rolling can't avoid damage.

[Boon: Bong Rip]

Originally posted by Mike:

I would say a better comparison is many of ER bosses have turned into literally bullet hell bosses, where there is so much on screen you literally have to replay the boss multiple times to even SEE when you are dodging lol.

I will also argue that ER has TERRIBLE AOE telegraphs and the hitboxes are random as ever (pretty much any ground based AOE). Like in the rahdan fight if you get hit by the grav pull move, he will do that huge AOE with the rock spikes. Well if you dodge the initial blast and literally just stand there there is a 50/50 chance you never get touched even though there are literal spike protruding through your body.

Also to go further into it with example from previous games.

Gael has the skulls that hit the ground, then clearly show you there are going to be lightning strikes (Including the random strikes) so his AOE only punishes you if you're really really not paying attention

Midir was very elden ring like due to the high HP bar, making him more endurance than anything. BUT, when he used his biggest baddest move he'd have a real cooldown afterward rewarding the player for knowing the pattern. Compare that to say, Bayle, who can use somethjng extremely similar to midir but has practically no cooldown after the fact.

The bosses "edge walk"/cooldowns from attacks are too short and the combo chains are too long. It'd be one thing if the combo chains themselves had better damage openings. (Admittedly 1st phase radahn has a few little pokes you can do but point stands.)

It's okay to have a boss that has the attacks he does, even in phase two, but what makes it unmanagable is the combinayion of a high HP bare and extremely low cooldowns between high effect/damage attacks. It just becomes an endurance test, and all DS/ER/Bloodborne bosses can be like that, when the boss moves at mach 5 it makes the time the fight takes go for even longer since the speed and HP spongyness multiply one another. And it's just not fun.

A fight against again, say gael, takes what like 5-7 minutes if you're not going balls to the wall? Radahn at least feels like the first phase is 5, and if I start dodging right for his second phase it's gotta be another 10, while also competing with the weird timing of his graba that can just end your run because ♥♥♥♥ your build if you miss a dodge twice.

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Mike:

My point from the beginning was that this is the first move in ER where spacing, and dodge rolling can't avoid damage.

And my point was that you're lying. 3:11 in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkjDw7U4qoA

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

No, YOU are wrong. You said the 2nd hit couldn't be dodgerolled. He dodgerolled the 2nd hit. I don't care that he blocked the first one, that's the point being made here. The 2nd hit DOES have a window to dodge through it. YOU are dodgeroll spamming, trying to dodge both the 1st and the 2nd. This is not the only boss in the game with multi-hit attacks in a short timeframe that make dodgerolling suboptimal. Hell the Tree Sentinel in the very beginning of the game has a shield crush that also possesses a shockwave, making it possible to dodgeroll the 1st and get hit by the 2nd.

You said the 2nd hit has no window, I said it does and showed evidence. Deal with it.

OH stop with the overly technical talk. I made it VERY clear it was the 3 hit string as a whole you can't dodge roll NOT specifically the 2nd attack. Of course you can block, parry,..etc the first hit and dodge the 2nd hit BUT you cannot dodge the first hit without talking damage period.

My point from the beginning was that this is the first move in ER where spacing, and dodge rolling can't avoid damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO3wRm_iAn4

See the 1:40 mark. If you rotate to your left and then dodge in that direction, you can get under the second swing and fully dodge the combo.

[Mike]

So its is dodge-able but its like a worse Melania where if he initiates it at the wrong place and wrong time your still eating damage or dying.......cool that is so much better .

Its still is trash design especially when it goes against the logic of most of these games, that being rolling INTO or towards the attack since most moves have long lasting hurt boxes, yet this one you have to be in his face, ALWAYS be on the left side to anticipate it, and make sure you roll in the same direction as the attack.....

If there was a perfect example of how to do aggressive bosses with fast attacks, but every attack has multiple options to dodge roll and its actually fun to dance around the boss, that would be Rellana.

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Mike:

So its is dodge-able but its like a worse Melania where if he initiates it at the wrong place and wrong time your still eating damage or dying.......cool that is so much better .

Its still is trash design especially when it goes against the logic of most of these games, that being rolling INTO or towards the attack since most moves have long lasting hurt boxes, yet this one you have to be in his face, ALWAYS be on the left side to anticipate it, and make sure you roll in the same direction as the attack.....

If there was a perfect example of how to do aggressive bosses with fast attacks, but every attack has multiple options to dodge roll and its actually fun to dance around the boss, that would be Rellana.

In terms of dodging in a certain direction, that's something the base game was teaching us. Just a few off hand are Margit's spinning attack, Margott's spinning attack, Malenia's quick triple slash. The DLC also had this with Messner's flying combo where he's stabs downward at you three times in very quick succession. There comes a point where the community gets so skilled that Fromsoft needs to find new ways to challenge the playerbase. They seem to be doing this with long combos, strategic/directional rolling, jumping, and limiting i-frames with lingering hitboxes. The challenges for us is to rise up and meet that challenge

[Mike]

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Originally posted by Mike:

So its is dodge-able but its like a worse Melania where if he initiates it at the wrong place and wrong time your still eating damage or dying.......cool that is so much better .

Its still is trash design especially when it goes against the logic of most of these games, that being rolling INTO or towards the attack since most moves have long lasting hurt boxes, yet this one you have to be in his face, ALWAYS be on the left side to anticipate it, and make sure you roll in the same direction as the attack.....

If there was a perfect example of how to do aggressive bosses with fast attacks, but every attack has multiple options to dodge roll and its actually fun to dance around the boss, that would be Rellana.

In terms of dodging in a certain direction, that's something the base game was teaching us. Just a few off hand are Margit's spinning attack, Margott's spinning attack, Malenia's quick triple slash. The DLC also had this with Messner's flying combo where he's stabs downward at you three times in very quick succession. There comes a point where the community gets so skilled that Fromsoft needs to find new ways to challenge the playerbase. They seem to be doing this with long combos, strategic/directional rolling, jumping, and limiting i-frames with lingering hitboxes. The challenges for us is to rise up and meet that challenge

Nothing Messer did felt un-dodgable though and even if some dodge needed to be precise it is nothing like water foul or this 3 hit combo. With this specific attack pattern the worse part is that the teel of its start up is OBVIOUS si the firt hit is easy to dodge its just that to "dodge" the intire string you literally have to precisely be in one specific spot, moving to get his tracking off axis,...etc.

I have tried this tactic in phase one of the boss and I have no idea how the guy in that video did it, when everytime rahdan initiates that attack it will literally 360 track to my location even if I'm all the way on the left side and dodge rolling.

I disagree with you last statement only because I feel the built in input delay coupled with FromSoft being adamant of making the player character as sluggish as possible, while doing the opposite to the boss, is just poor mixing of game design elements. The funny thing is that this is the ONLY fight in the DLC that I just don't like and its because no other boss had attacks where after 20-30+ attempts I just could not figure out to dodge (with the exception of the lazer spin move for the finger mother boss).

Figuring out Rellana and beating her after 50+ attempts felt good, but I'm on attempt 20+ now and NOTHING else in the boss fight is really cheap feeling but this stupid attack that is bringing me back to Melanian PSTD where 99% of her kit was brain dead easy to dodge BUT that one move.

[Mr.Bucket]

All can’t be dodge-rolled, therefore, trash design….. I dodge, block, jump, run outside of combo range, facetank, and a host of other things. Why is it being so hard to dodge the reason it’s trash?

It feels like this may be, bar none, the stupidest complaint I’ve ever heard.

“Oh jeez, I can eat a lot of things with a fork, but soup doesn’t allow me to get everything on my fork. Soup is a trash design!”

Use a spoon or a spork dummy

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Mr.Bucket:

All can’t be dodge-rolled, therefore, trash design….. I dodge, block, jump, run outside of combo range, facetank, and a host of other things. Why is it being so hard to dodge the reason it’s trash?

It feels like this may be, bar none, the stupidest complaint I’ve ever heard.

“Oh jeez, I can eat a lot of things with a fork, but soup doesn’t allow me to get everything on my fork. Soup is a trash design!”

Use a spoon or a spork dummy

I take the Dark Souls approach to all aspects of life. My soup will be defeated with a fork no matter how many deaths I die!

[lordbravura]

I finally beat Radahn. It ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sucked. I dont want to ever see this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ again.

I went with my NR+4 save to the expansion. Had a blast for the whole thing, i hate this fight. I wont ever play it again.

♥♥♥♥ his spam, ♥♥♥♥ his blinding light show. He and ichella can suck each others ♥♥♥♥♥ for eternity for all i care.

0 fun

[Mike]

Originally posted by Mr.Bucket:

All can’t be dodge-rolled, therefore, trash design….. I dodge, block, jump, run outside of combo range, facetank, and a host of other things. Why is it being so hard to dodge the reason it’s trash?

It feels like this may be, bar none, the stupidest complaint I’ve ever heard.

“Oh jeez, I can eat a lot of things with a fork, but soup doesn’t allow me to get everything on my fork. Soup is a trash design!”

Use a spoon or a spork dummy

Because 99% of FS souls games including ER can be played this way and has been the DEFACTO way the hardcore player base plays these games since literally Demon Souls. So when literally 1-2 bosses out of hundreds have moves that require this much precision, in a game that eats your inputs with lag spikes, has delayed inputs due to rolls coming out on release (instead of when you push the button), ...etc, it feels like some of these attacks were designed for a different game outside of the mechanics they provide to the player.

Radahn (and Melania) is like fighting a boss in a Gears of war game, which is designed fro mthe gound up around cover based shooting and having that boss be in an open arena with NO where to take cover from the bullets and your all of a sudden expected to find another way to avoid the damage.

Saying that "all can't be dodge-rolled" in a souls-like game, where that has been the case for 99% of the content, is kind of weird to me lol.

The issue is ER is NOT designed for the level of precision that they require for some of these bosses attacks, and the only proof you need is actually seeing how you have to dodge some of these stupid attacks (like dodging water foul requires you running circles around the boss like an idiot, and apparently to dodge this attack you also have to only walk/run to one side and hop Radahn does the exact moves you want him too lol).

[BingusDingus]

They don't, Fromsoft just makes the bosses they want to make and i guess the concept for Consort Radahn was "Spam flashy lights."
Elden Ring's bosses are spectacle over mechanics, it has always been one of the points of regression people levy against Elden Ring when compared to their previous games.

[Nauct]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

No, YOU are wrong. You said the 2nd hit couldn't be dodgerolled. He dodgerolled the 2nd hit. I don't care that he blocked the first one, that's the point being made here. The 2nd hit DOES have a window to dodge through it. YOU are dodgeroll spamming, trying to dodge both the 1st and the 2nd. This is not the only boss in the game with multi-hit attacks in a short timeframe that make dodgerolling suboptimal. Hell the Tree Sentinel in the very beginning of the game has a shield crush that also possesses a shockwave, making it possible to dodgeroll the 1st and get hit by the 2nd.

You said the 2nd hit has no window, I said it does and showed evidence. Deal with it.

OH stop with the overly technical talk. I made it VERY clear it was the 3 hit string as a whole you can't dodge roll NOT specifically the 2nd attack. Of course you can block, parry,..etc the first hit and dodge the 2nd hit BUT you cannot dodge the first hit without talking damage period.

My point from the beginning was that this is the first move in ER where spacing, and dodge rolling can't avoid damage.

What move are people talking about that cant be dodged? He does those two quick slashes from his left, but if you dodge the first one quickly you recover in time to dodge the second. Realized that first couple minutes fighting him

[Mike]

Originally posted by Nauct:

Originally posted by Mike:

OH stop with the overly technical talk. I made it VERY clear it was the 3 hit string as a whole you can't dodge roll NOT specifically the 2nd attack. Of course you can block, parry,..etc the first hit and dodge the 2nd hit BUT you cannot dodge the first hit without talking damage period.

My point from the beginning was that this is the first move in ER where spacing, and dodge rolling can't avoid damage.

What move are people talking about that cant be dodged? He does those two quick slashes from his left, but if you dodge the first one quickly you recover in time to dodge the second. Realized that first couple minutes fighting him

I don't believe you can, even no hit runners are either block countering the first hit (using a certain cracked tear), OR you have to constantly run to the left, dodge the first attack and the 2nd one will whiff because it has weak tracking. If you try anything dodge roll outside of of that method the 2nd attack will always be too fast to dodge straight up, even if you have light roll.

[Nauct]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Nauct:

What move are people talking about that cant be dodged? He does those two quick slashes from his left, but if you dodge the first one quickly you recover in time to dodge the second. Realized that first couple minutes fighting him

I don't believe you can, even no hit runners are either block countering the first hit (using a certain cracked tear), OR you have to constantly run to the left, dodge the first attack and the 2nd one will whiff because it has weak tracking. If you try anything dodge roll outside of of that method the 2nd attack will always be too fast to dodge straight up, even if you have light roll.

I was dodging that 100% of the time by the time I killed him in medium. He does a swing before that and I wasn't trying to fit in an attack there with my greatsword. Plus you can be walking/rolling to his right which gives you more time to dodge it.
Light doesn't make your dodges faster, just more distance. All you gotta do is dodge the first slash early man. I'll do more testing on my RL1 run, just gotta kill Mesmer first and I'll be there