The DLC butchers Malenia & Miquella's relationship and the plot twist is contrived.

[ArleniaSery]

The Embarrassing Differences:

Miquella in the Land of Shadow is in the process of abandoning himself, his love, emotions etc. Yet we aren't given a single piece of lore anywhere that describes the process by which he departs himself from (what should be) the most important person in his life, his sister. I'll explain later how the base game implies he does love his sister. Let's compare his and Malenia's dialogues first:

How Malenia treats Miquella:

- In her opening cutscene: I await the return of my brother, look how sad I am about it.

- Her death: I apologise my dear brother for dying.

- Her armour: My brother is the best.

- 75% of her character is about Miquella.

How Miquella treats Malenia :

- He references his beloved sister as his "loyal blade". There are no past mentions, like notes during his divestment process. Remember when we got there, Miquella was still in the process of divesting parts of himself. He had not fully become devoid of everything. They could have shown him losing his love for Malenia as he's becoming a God.

Unrequited Love:

Have you ever read a book where one character loves another and it's their whole identity and then you find out that the other person doesn't give a single ♥♥♥♥ about them? Yeah that's the DLC. Unrequited love characters are awkward and kind of pathetic. Which Malenia is the opposite of.

That isn't entirely my issue though. This aspect still butchers and disrespects Malenia's character to an extent but it's the way it's executed that is also a problem. This could've been done well. Imagine if, at a Miquella's Cross it said: here I abandon my love for my sister, and an NPC tells you that they figured out how/why Miquella never loved Malenia or stopped loving her. The issue is that it's like the Daenery's Season 8 of Game of Thrones meme, "she kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet". She has no involvement in a DLC that is about the closest person in her life. It makes her look like a pathetic and forgotten character.

Character Assassination:

Imagine if you told someone who only played the DLC that Miquella and Malenia are actually twins, that they grew up together, that they both shared the same trauma and pain, that Miquella abandoned the largest, most powerful religion in the Lands Between, the Golden Order, because he wanted to help her, that she's named after him, that there are statues in the Haligtree of them embracing, that Malenia called him out tenderly by name multiple times whilst literally dying. How ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gobsmacked would they be?

I don't personally think so but, with how she's ignored by the narrative, it's as if the DLC wants us to think there was a façade in their relationship. If so then where in the DLC is the façade ever dissected? Where is it talked about and evaluated by an NPC, or via items? I read every single item I came across. My playthrough was 50 hours long. I made tons of notes. Malenia is mentioned only 1 time. Radahn's armour tells us that Miquella advised Malenia to go fight Radahn and bloom and what she whispered, suggesting she was in on the whole Radahn Consort plan. That's it.

They're Inseparable:

In the base game it was always Miquella and Malenia, those names were inseparable, even though they were separated physically. Malenia's love for Miquella is super apparent but surely, with the way the Miquella DLC treats Malenia as an afterthought, as just some person who was once loyal to Miquella I guess, then it means that Miquella kind of just didn't like Malenia all that much, and his need to be a God superseded any familial relations... right?

Surely this piece of established, objective lore means nothing then: "And yet, the young Miquella abandoned fundamentalism, for it could do nothing to treat Malenia's accursed rot." This quote heavily implies that Miquella sought for a way to treat Malenia, and he first tried Golden Order Fundamentalism but left when it didn't work. So if his goal is to treat his sister, then he obviously cares about her.

Some could argue that he didn't want to cure her because he cared for her, but because he wanted to (insert whatever evil objective) and needed a pure Malenia to achieve it, implying his departure from the Golden Order and subsequent establishment of Unalloyed Gold was an attempt at a means to an end, the end being Godhood. Then we go back again to... why wasn't this explored in the DLC in relation to Malenia?

Radahn and Miquella's Relationship:

In the base game there isn't any tangible connection of a vow, or a promise made between Radahn and Miquella of all people. It just feels soooo out of left field and contrived. There didn't need to give us anything obvious, just give me the esoteric, vague lore drop in the base game... but they didn't (example: you find a random flower item that says: 'this young bud would never grow, it's innocent protected by the fearsome lion; a vow was made, never to be broken' ). In the Elden Ring text database there are only 2 instances where Radahn and Miquella are mentioned in the same sentence in the base game:

One is Morgott's cutscene where he's just naming the Demigods and the other is Gideon's dialogue, where he says this:

"I'd expect to find Malenia there. She who fought Radahn to a standstill. But...with the Haligtree as it is... I suppose Miquella must already be...".

Not much to go off in building even the slightest connection between them. And if there was a secret promise made between Miquella and Malenia to elevate Miquella to god-hood with a vow from Radahn, then why wasn't Malenia's part, as his twin and collaborator, explored at all?

Some Pests > Malenia:

The DLC explores Godwyn (Catacombs and Death Knights), Radahn (Freya, End Boss, Gauis), Mohg (Ansbach), Marika (literally everywhere) but not Malenia, the closest person to Miquella. Moore's Brood, the docile Children of Rot, have more characterisation and care given to them than the poster child for Elden Ring, let that sink in. There's a sizeable Scarlet Rot section but no Malenia mention. You could say that she was explored already... but so was everyone else I listed.

Conclusion:

Honestly, unlike some others, I love the difficulty of the DLC, and I love the end game bosses in base Elden Ring too. I love the Elden Ring boss design formula (multiple + delayed attacks etc I don't care that everyone else dislikes it). The visuals were 10/10, exploration was world-class. I had barely any performance issues. But I fear they missed the mark of the story this time. They disrespected their most popular character by treating her like barely an afterthought, pulled a Miquella/Radahn storyline out of their ass and went against established lore.

I hope someone makes a compelling lore video that clears everything up for me, and it all makes sense. I really don't want to hate the story because I love everything else.

[Quandangle Jones & JimJams]

honestly i think the lack of Godwyn is more egregious. Why isn't Godwyn the promised consort? Besides Malenia Godwyn was the only other person Miquella was mentioned as trying to cure.

I wished they had him piece together a new soul or restore him somehow in the shadow realm as part of his plan to cure him

[paincanbefun]

>Some could argue that he didn't want to cure her because he cared for her, but because he wanted to (insert whatever evil objective) and needed a pure Malenia to achieve it, implying his departure from the Golden Order and subsequent establishment of Unalloyed Gold was an attempt at a means to an end, the end being Godhood. Then we go back again to... why wasn't this explored in the DLC in relation to Malenia?

i guess i agree. i think Miquella being a user makes sense and it's what i expected, but it does depart from the constant drumbeat of base game references, especially around the golden needle and the statuary in the Haligtree area, with her shown, seeming to be his protector

if they want him to be a user, they could have been more clear about this. just forgetting about her might make sense for Miquella, if he is like that, but not for the overall writing, since the players can be expected to notice and care

[Kyutaru]

Malenia: exists

Miquella:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POh7qNVFIrg

Malenia: All glory to the Miquella.

[Vinnolo]

The entire lore of the dlc its just miquella controlling half of the demigods to do his biding, he doesnt show any care for them, we can actually see this in the other tarnished at the start, they all speak highly of miquella and reffer to him as kind miquella, as soon as the charming spell ends, they basically dont care about miquella and end up all killing eachother since they were all from different factions. the title of kind and good comes from people charmed by him, not because he is actually good or kind, he is prob the biggest a-hole in the lands between, but it isnt obvious like with the other self centered demigods

[rhoenix]

I see OP's point, though - per the lore, Miquella put in a lot of time and effort into helping his sister.

The darker interpretation is that he learned enough and helped her enough that she would still function as his sword-arm, and didn't care much for her beyond her capacity to do that. This interpretation would explain why he sent his sister after Radahn. If true, this paints him in a really bad light, that even his own twin would be nothing more than a tool to condition so she can achieve his ends.

The lighter interpretation is still kinda dark. That Miquella did love his sister, and given the many things he was trying to account for and fix, he came across the idea of becoming a god, like his mother did. What exactly he thought this would give him, I'm not exactly sure - but the process of doing so made him lose and forget all the important parts of himself. The end result being that he got what he wanted, and since the price kept increasing, he kept paying it without realizing the long-term consequences of what he was giving up.

[ArleniaSery]

Originally posted by Da Onion:

honestly i think the lack of Godwyn is more egregious. Why isn't Godwyn the promised consort? Besides Malenia Godwyn was the only other person Miquella was mentioned as trying to cure.

I wished they had him piece together a new soul or restore him somehow in the shadow realm as part of his plan to cure him

At least Godwyn had all the catacombs for him

[Quandangle Jones & JimJams]

Originally posted by ArleniaSery:

Originally posted by Da Onion:

honestly i think the lack of Godwyn is more egregious. Why isn't Godwyn the promised consort? Besides Malenia Godwyn was the only other person Miquella was mentioned as trying to cure.

I wished they had him piece together a new soul or restore him somehow in the shadow realm as part of his plan to cure him

At least Godwyn had all the catacombs for him

but those don't expand anything on him. All that does is show that he spread to the realm of shadows which just raises even more questions and none of them are satisfied

by that logic the fact that scarlet rot exists means malenia gets love too as shes the representative of it. Neither one directly has any input in the dlc

[Eren Jäger]

Originally posted by rhoenix:

I see OP's point, though - per the lore, Miquella put in a lot of time and effort into helping his sister.

The darker interpretation is that he learned enough and helped her enough that she would still function as his sword-arm, and didn't care much for her beyond her capacity to do that. This interpretation would explain why he sent his sister after Radahn. If true, this paints him in a really bad light, that even his own twin would be nothing more than a tool to condition so she can achieve his ends.

The lighter interpretation is still kinda dark. That Miquella did love his sister, and given the many things he was trying to account for and fix, he came across the idea of becoming a god, like his mother did. What exactly he thought this would give him, I'm not exactly sure - but the process of doing so made him lose and forget all the important parts of himself. The end result being that he got what he wanted, and since the price kept increasing, he kept paying it without realizing the long-term consequences of what he was giving up.

Both theories sound quite plausible. I agree that it's strange to mention Malenia just once. This could definitely have been expanded a bit, but that doesn't change that she was one of the main reasons why he came up with the idea that it would be better to overthrow Marika and take her place. Even if she was not mentioned personally by Miquella, all the effort and sacrifices he made were largely motivated by her fate.

[ArleniaSery]

Originally posted by Da Onion:

Originally posted by ArleniaSery:

At least Godwyn had all the catacombs for him

but those don't expand anything on him. All that does is show that he spread to the realm of shadows which just raises even more questions and none of them are satisfied

by that logic the fact that scarlet rot exists means malenia gets love too as shes the representative of it. Neither one directly has any input in the dlc

No Godwyn gets name dropped a lot in the Catacombs, and his face is literally there. The Scarlet Rot section doesn't mention Malenia a single time and its separate from her character.

[Quandangle Jones & JimJams]

Originally posted by ArleniaSery:

Originally posted by Da Onion:

but those don't expand anything on him. All that does is show that he spread to the realm of shadows which just raises even more questions and none of them are satisfied

by that logic the fact that scarlet rot exists means malenia gets love too as shes the representative of it. Neither one directly has any input in the dlc

No Godwyn gets name dropped a lot in the Catacombs, and his face is literally there. The Scarlet Rot section doesn't mention Malenia a single time and its separate from her character.

what does having his face there accomplish narratively? nothing, his face is there, so what? I was right, it just shows that he's spread to the shadow realm, it does nothing to advance his character or his situation. If seeing a reused texture is enough to satisfy you so be it but I was hoping for actual development of the character or at least a faction npc

the only thing new we got from Godwyns faction was a new sorcerer enemy with the most infuriating bouncing machinegun spell

[Persona Au Gratin]

Originally posted by ArleniaSery:

The Scarlet Rot section doesn't mention Malenia a single time

It implicitly mentions something related to her, how the Butterflies don't have a master. Which plays into how she tries to fight her affinity with the Scarlet Rot, spurns her "divinity."

I don't disagree with the notion that the DLC is a huge let down to me regarding where it leads, but it's more to say that even when it does implicate Malenia, I'm still left doing a lot of nothing burger found footage/text. There is a LOT of exposition and the funny thing is I found myself excited to at least see this cast of characters "investigating" Miquella and they sort of give away the game immediately upon approaching the Shadow Keep.

[CourtesyFlush09]

You think that's bad?

How about the promotional image of Miquella riding Torrent? The DLC then never touches on the two's relationship. It's highly uncharacteristic of FromSoft tbh. Borderline deceptive.

[Persona Au Gratin]

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush09:

You think that's bad?

How about the promotional image of Miquella riding Torrent? The DLC then never touches on the two's relationship. It's highly uncharacteristic of FromSoft tbh. Borderline deceptive.

Wouldn't be the first time to get a deceptive thing from a trailer, the ship definitely has sailed on whether marketing is honest or not.

[rhoenix]

Originally posted by Eren Jäger:

Both theories sound quite plausible. I agree that it's strange to mention Malenia just once. This could definitely have been expanded a bit, but that doesn't change that she was one of the main reasons why he came up with the idea that it would be better to overthrow Marika and take her place. Even if she was not mentioned personally by Miquella, all the effort and sacrifices he made were largely motivated by her fate.

I mean, that's what I thought pretty firmly before the events in the DLC. Now... there's the plausible option of Miquella being motivated by his desires in general rather than a more pointed desire to help his sister.

There are thick textbooks devoted to the multiple ways in which things can go sideways if you lose sight of your original goal while trying to make it real. Especially if one tends to view other people as chess pieces.

If this is the case, no matter what light his actions are seen in, it very easily explains how he got the end result he did - he didn't read the fine print as closely as he should have, and focused only on achieving his end goal.

It also places into question the actual purpose for the Haligtree, which is more uncomfortable.

[Settings]

Originally posted by Da Onion:

honestly i think the lack of Godwyn is more egregious. Why isn't Godwyn the promised consort? Besides Malenia Godwyn was the only other person Miquella was mentioned as trying to cure.

I wished they had him piece together a new soul or restore him somehow in the shadow realm as part of his plan to cure him

100% the plot of the DLC should have been Miquella Vs Godwyn not "Femboy twink has an emotional crisis"