The DLC butchers Malenia & Miquella's relationship and the plot twist is contrived.

[ArleniaSery]

The Embarrassing Differences:

Miquella in the Land of Shadow is in the process of abandoning himself, his love, emotions etc. Yet we aren't given a single piece of lore anywhere that describes the process by which he departs himself from (what should be) the most important person in his life, his sister. I'll explain later how the base game implies he does love his sister. Let's compare his and Malenia's dialogues first:

How Malenia treats Miquella:

- In her opening cutscene: I await the return of my brother, look how sad I am about it.

- Her death: I apologise my dear brother for dying.

- Her armour: My brother is the best.

- 75% of her character is about Miquella.

How Miquella treats Malenia :

- He references his beloved sister as his "loyal blade". There are no past mentions, like notes during his divestment process. Remember when we got there, Miquella was still in the process of divesting parts of himself. He had not fully become devoid of everything. They could have shown him losing his love for Malenia as he's becoming a God.

Unrequited Love:

Have you ever read a book where one character loves another and it's their whole identity and then you find out that the other person doesn't give a single ♥♥♥♥ about them? Yeah that's the DLC. Unrequited love characters are awkward and kind of pathetic. Which Malenia is the opposite of.

That isn't entirely my issue though. This aspect still butchers and disrespects Malenia's character to an extent but it's the way it's executed that is also a problem. This could've been done well. Imagine if, at a Miquella's Cross it said: here I abandon my love for my sister, and an NPC tells you that they figured out how/why Miquella never loved Malenia or stopped loving her. The issue is that it's like the Daenery's Season 8 of Game of Thrones meme, "she kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet". She has no involvement in a DLC that is about the closest person in her life. It makes her look like a pathetic and forgotten character.

Character Assassination:

Imagine if you told someone who only played the DLC that Miquella and Malenia are actually twins, that they grew up together, that they both shared the same trauma and pain, that Miquella abandoned the largest, most powerful religion in the Lands Between, the Golden Order, because he wanted to help her, that she's named after him, that there are statues in the Haligtree of them embracing, that Malenia called him out tenderly by name multiple times whilst literally dying. How ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gobsmacked would they be?

I don't personally think so but, with how she's ignored by the narrative, it's as if the DLC wants us to think there was a façade in their relationship. If so then where in the DLC is the façade ever dissected? Where is it talked about and evaluated by an NPC, or via items? I read every single item I came across. My playthrough was 50 hours long. I made tons of notes. Malenia is mentioned only 1 time. Radahn's armour tells us that Miquella advised Malenia to go fight Radahn and bloom and what she whispered, suggesting she was in on the whole Radahn Consort plan. That's it.

They're Inseparable:

In the base game it was always Miquella and Malenia, those names were inseparable, even though they were separated physically. Malenia's love for Miquella is super apparent but surely, with the way the Miquella DLC treats Malenia as an afterthought, as just some person who was once loyal to Miquella I guess, then it means that Miquella kind of just didn't like Malenia all that much, and his need to be a God superseded any familial relations... right?

Surely this piece of established, objective lore means nothing then: "And yet, the young Miquella abandoned fundamentalism, for it could do nothing to treat Malenia's accursed rot." This quote heavily implies that Miquella sought for a way to treat Malenia, and he first tried Golden Order Fundamentalism but left when it didn't work. So if his goal is to treat his sister, then he obviously cares about her.

Some could argue that he didn't want to cure her because he cared for her, but because he wanted to (insert whatever evil objective) and needed a pure Malenia to achieve it, implying his departure from the Golden Order and subsequent establishment of Unalloyed Gold was an attempt at a means to an end, the end being Godhood. Then we go back again to... why wasn't this explored in the DLC in relation to Malenia?

Radahn and Miquella's Relationship:

In the base game there isn't any tangible connection of a vow, or a promise made between Radahn and Miquella of all people. It just feels soooo out of left field and contrived. There didn't need to give us anything obvious, just give me the esoteric, vague lore drop in the base game... but they didn't (example: you find a random flower item that says: 'this young bud would never grow, it's innocent protected by the fearsome lion; a vow was made, never to be broken' ). In the Elden Ring text database there are only 2 instances where Radahn and Miquella are mentioned in the same sentence in the base game:

One is Morgott's cutscene where he's just naming the Demigods and the other is Gideon's dialogue, where he says this:

"I'd expect to find Malenia there. She who fought Radahn to a standstill. But...with the Haligtree as it is... I suppose Miquella must already be...".

Not much to go off in building even the slightest connection between them. And if there was a secret promise made between Miquella and Malenia to elevate Miquella to god-hood with a vow from Radahn, then why wasn't Malenia's part, as his twin and collaborator, explored at all?

Some Pests > Malenia:

The DLC explores Godwyn (Catacombs and Death Knights), Radahn (Freya, End Boss, Gauis), Mohg (Ansbach), Marika (literally everywhere) but not Malenia, the closest person to Miquella. Moore's Brood, the docile Children of Rot, have more characterisation and care given to them than the poster child for Elden Ring, let that sink in. There's a sizeable Scarlet Rot section but no Malenia mention. You could say that she was explored already... but so was everyone else I listed.

Conclusion:

Honestly, unlike some others, I love the difficulty of the DLC, and I love the end game bosses in base Elden Ring too. I love the Elden Ring boss design formula (multiple + delayed attacks etc I don't care that everyone else dislikes it). The visuals were 10/10, exploration was world-class. I had barely any performance issues. But I fear they missed the mark of the story this time. They disrespected their most popular character by treating her like barely an afterthought, pulled a Miquella/Radahn storyline out of their ass and went against established lore.

I hope someone makes a compelling lore video that clears everything up for me, and it all makes sense. I really don't want to hate the story because I love everything else.

[Quandangle Jones & JimJams]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Egon:

I at least expected some kind of change in dialogue or scene when going after Malenia ( I saved her for last after beating DLC) similar to how Sif sheds a tear or whatever after beating Artorias DLC in Dark Souls when you face him if I remember correctly. Not even that.

from what ive heard theres no changes to base game interactions

[rhoenix]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Porcelain:

I would have to disagree, often times the most "villain" people in real life are the ones like Miquella and not Bowser. The reason he's a villain is because of his manipulation, while his reason may be noble his actions and methods are not. We see this in history as well, Robespierre, Leopold II, and the most perfect of all examples to me was Livia Drusilla. The lore was a real reflection of life, almost too real.

All of this leaves me feeling really bad for Malenia, and I didn't think I'd be saying that.

In the cut content for the original game, if I remember right, the Millicent quest to bring her to the Haligtree was because she was actually Malenia, and there was something the Tarnished could have done to restore her to her Empyrean state.

From that light, I'd feel even worse for her if Miquella pulled all of this - it would have meant Miquella discarded her entirely after that fight with Radahn for his own ambitions.

[Kyutaru]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από hemorrhage911:

It's just stupid. Something a western dev would write.

I guess a segment of the player base got what they wanted. Little femboy being big gay.

Well George RR Martin wrote the script and if you don't know of his writing style from Game of Thrones, then let's just say none of this is unusual for him.

Also, he's not a femboy, he's just an eternal 8-year-old. Eight year old boys and girls look basically identical and if you put a little boy in a dress and give him long hair you wouldn't know he's not female.

[Key]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Da Onion:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Egon:

I at least expected some kind of change in dialogue or scene when going after Malenia ( I saved her for last after beating DLC) similar to how Sif sheds a tear or whatever after beating Artorias DLC in Dark Souls when you face him if I remember correctly. Not even that.

from what ive heard theres no changes to base game interactions

There isn't which is really disappointing. Even Friede had different dialogues depending on your choices.

[ArleniaSery]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ★ Moonlight ★:

By the time we meet Miquella, he has already cast away the part of him that made it even possible to care about his sister, and that piece of him became St. Trina.
I do have problems with the writing, but it's not this

Everyone gets that Miquella isn't himself by the time we get to him. That makes complete sense and isn't at all a problem. The issue is that there was a time before and after he divested love and emotions. His sister isn't explored at all both when Miquella still has love and during the process of him divesting love. She's forgotten about both those times. That's a problem.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Senki:

the malenia vs radahn battle was never explained

It was. That finger reader lady and the Two Fingers said that the demigods waged war against each other because the "mad taint" of their Great Runes caused them to fight for control of the continent.

[SoloQ]

"Overview. Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental health condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others."

[CourtesyFlush09]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Key:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Da Onion:

from what ive heard theres no changes to base game interactions

There isn't which is really disappointing. Even Friede had different dialogues depending on your choices.

Yeah, even Sif had a brief cutscene if you saved him in the Artorias DLC.

Shadow of the Erdtree has more holes than Swiss cheese, which basically reaffirms my biggest worry that the sheer size and scope of ER's lore was too much for FromSoft to handle in the end.

[Key]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από CourtesyFlush09:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Senki:

the malenia vs radahn battle was never explained

It was. That finger reader lady and the Two Fingers said that the demigods waged war against each other because the "mad taint" of their Great Runes caused them to fight for control of the continent.

Having "mad taint" sounds like slang for carrying an STD tbh.

[fheadx]

I think I burnt the big, huge tree for them? Them or for some other reason. Hope this helped!

[Settings]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Key:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από CourtesyFlush09:

It was. That finger reader lady and the Two Fingers said that the demigods waged war against each other because the "mad taint" of their Great Runes caused them to fight for control of the continent.

Having "mad taint" sounds like slang for carrying an STD tbh.

"Every time I pee I get frenzied flame"

[ArleniaSery]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Senki:

there had to be a connection with miquella and radahn

the malenia vs radahn battle was never explained but it was pretty obvious it was connected to miquella, it wasn't really that ''out of left field''

other than that it's just the usual fromsoftware incomplete writing, we'll never get all the context and answers. It's a shame because they have all the pieces to create something amazing for a story but they are too obsessed with their quirky ''nuh uh you won't actually ever get the whole story''

Malenia being connected to Radahn and then Malenia being connected to Miquella doesn't make Miquella magically connected to Radahn lmao. What?

[rabureta]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ArleniaSery:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ★ Moonlight ★:

By the time we meet Miquella, he has already cast away the part of him that made it even possible to care about his sister, and that piece of him became St. Trina.
I do have problems with the writing, but it's not this

Everyone gets that Miquella isn't himself by the time we get to him. That makes complete sense and isn't at all a problem. The issue is that there was a time before and after he divested love and emotions. His sister isn't explored at all both when Miquella still has love and during the process of him divesting love. She's forgotten about both those times. That's a problem.

When Miquella "was himself" and still had his love, he still went around charming people for his own ends. Mohg, all of his followers except Leda and Dane, and so forth.

Miquella failed to save Godwyn with the Eclipse (natural law) and failed to save Malenia with the Haligtree (divine law) so he decided to change both by becoming a god, but how could he save anyone if he could not save himself?

[epreber0809]

The more I read into the DLC the more I'm disapointed with it. With everything. Thinking ER was the best game I've ever played until recently. Jumping up and down waiting to DL the DLC telling my GF I "wanted to touch the withered arm so BAAAaaaad"... Now I just don't even know...

[Eren Jäger]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από rhoenix:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Eren Jäger:

Both theories sound quite plausible. I agree that it's strange to mention Malenia just once. This could definitely have been expanded a bit, but that doesn't change that she was one of the main reasons why he came up with the idea that it would be better to overthrow Marika and take her place. Even if she was not mentioned personally by Miquella, all the effort and sacrifices he made were largely motivated by her fate.

I mean, that's what I thought pretty firmly before the events in the DLC. Now... there's the plausible option of Miquella being motivated by his desires in general rather than a more pointed desire to help his sister.

There are thick textbooks devoted to the multiple ways in which things can go sideways if you lose sight of your original goal while trying to make it real. Especially if one tends to view other people as chess pieces.

If this is the case, no matter what light his actions are seen in, it very easily explains how he got the end result he did - he didn't read the fine print as closely as he should have, and focused only on achieving his end goal.

It also places into question the actual purpose for the Haligtree, which is more uncomfortable.

That would of course also be possible. It could be that he only used Malenia as a tool (Sword of Miquella) to achieve his goals. His love and compassion are fake and only serve to make other people fight for his goals. The Haligtree was just an attempt to gather the poor and weak to form an army that he could use against Marika.

But I give him the benefit of the doubt. I think Malenia really meant something to him. It was desperation and sadness that made him believe there was no other option than to become a monster himself to save those he loved. I don't know if you've seen Naruto or Attack on Titan, but Miquella reminds me a lot of Eren Yaeger/Madara Uchia. Both believed they had to sacrifice themselves and do terrible things to make the world a better place.