The DLC butchers Malenia & Miquella's relationship and the plot twist is contrived.

[ArleniaSery]

The Embarrassing Differences:

Miquella in the Land of Shadow is in the process of abandoning himself, his love, emotions etc. Yet we aren't given a single piece of lore anywhere that describes the process by which he departs himself from (what should be) the most important person in his life, his sister. I'll explain later how the base game implies he does love his sister. Let's compare his and Malenia's dialogues first:

How Malenia treats Miquella:

- In her opening cutscene: I await the return of my brother, look how sad I am about it.

- Her death: I apologise my dear brother for dying.

- Her armour: My brother is the best.

- 75% of her character is about Miquella.

How Miquella treats Malenia :

- He references his beloved sister as his "loyal blade". There are no past mentions, like notes during his divestment process. Remember when we got there, Miquella was still in the process of divesting parts of himself. He had not fully become devoid of everything. They could have shown him losing his love for Malenia as he's becoming a God.

Unrequited Love:

Have you ever read a book where one character loves another and it's their whole identity and then you find out that the other person doesn't give a single ♥♥♥♥ about them? Yeah that's the DLC. Unrequited love characters are awkward and kind of pathetic. Which Malenia is the opposite of.

That isn't entirely my issue though. This aspect still butchers and disrespects Malenia's character to an extent but it's the way it's executed that is also a problem. This could've been done well. Imagine if, at a Miquella's Cross it said: here I abandon my love for my sister, and an NPC tells you that they figured out how/why Miquella never loved Malenia or stopped loving her. The issue is that it's like the Daenery's Season 8 of Game of Thrones meme, "she kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet". She has no involvement in a DLC that is about the closest person in her life. It makes her look like a pathetic and forgotten character.

Character Assassination:

Imagine if you told someone who only played the DLC that Miquella and Malenia are actually twins, that they grew up together, that they both shared the same trauma and pain, that Miquella abandoned the largest, most powerful religion in the Lands Between, the Golden Order, because he wanted to help her, that she's named after him, that there are statues in the Haligtree of them embracing, that Malenia called him out tenderly by name multiple times whilst literally dying. How ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gobsmacked would they be?

I don't personally think so but, with how she's ignored by the narrative, it's as if the DLC wants us to think there was a façade in their relationship. If so then where in the DLC is the façade ever dissected? Where is it talked about and evaluated by an NPC, or via items? I read every single item I came across. My playthrough was 50 hours long. I made tons of notes. Malenia is mentioned only 1 time. Radahn's armour tells us that Miquella advised Malenia to go fight Radahn and bloom and what she whispered, suggesting she was in on the whole Radahn Consort plan. That's it.

They're Inseparable:

In the base game it was always Miquella and Malenia, those names were inseparable, even though they were separated physically. Malenia's love for Miquella is super apparent but surely, with the way the Miquella DLC treats Malenia as an afterthought, as just some person who was once loyal to Miquella I guess, then it means that Miquella kind of just didn't like Malenia all that much, and his need to be a God superseded any familial relations... right?

Surely this piece of established, objective lore means nothing then: "And yet, the young Miquella abandoned fundamentalism, for it could do nothing to treat Malenia's accursed rot." This quote heavily implies that Miquella sought for a way to treat Malenia, and he first tried Golden Order Fundamentalism but left when it didn't work. So if his goal is to treat his sister, then he obviously cares about her.

Some could argue that he didn't want to cure her because he cared for her, but because he wanted to (insert whatever evil objective) and needed a pure Malenia to achieve it, implying his departure from the Golden Order and subsequent establishment of Unalloyed Gold was an attempt at a means to an end, the end being Godhood. Then we go back again to... why wasn't this explored in the DLC in relation to Malenia?

Radahn and Miquella's Relationship:

In the base game there isn't any tangible connection of a vow, or a promise made between Radahn and Miquella of all people. It just feels soooo out of left field and contrived. There didn't need to give us anything obvious, just give me the esoteric, vague lore drop in the base game... but they didn't (example: you find a random flower item that says: 'this young bud would never grow, it's innocent protected by the fearsome lion; a vow was made, never to be broken' ). In the Elden Ring text database there are only 2 instances where Radahn and Miquella are mentioned in the same sentence in the base game:

One is Morgott's cutscene where he's just naming the Demigods and the other is Gideon's dialogue, where he says this:

"I'd expect to find Malenia there. She who fought Radahn to a standstill. But...with the Haligtree as it is... I suppose Miquella must already be...".

Not much to go off in building even the slightest connection between them. And if there was a secret promise made between Miquella and Malenia to elevate Miquella to god-hood with a vow from Radahn, then why wasn't Malenia's part, as his twin and collaborator, explored at all?

Some Pests > Malenia:

The DLC explores Godwyn (Catacombs and Death Knights), Radahn (Freya, End Boss, Gauis), Mohg (Ansbach), Marika (literally everywhere) but not Malenia, the closest person to Miquella. Moore's Brood, the docile Children of Rot, have more characterisation and care given to them than the poster child for Elden Ring, let that sink in. There's a sizeable Scarlet Rot section but no Malenia mention. You could say that she was explored already... but so was everyone else I listed.

Conclusion:

Honestly, unlike some others, I love the difficulty of the DLC, and I love the end game bosses in base Elden Ring too. I love the Elden Ring boss design formula (multiple + delayed attacks etc I don't care that everyone else dislikes it). The visuals were 10/10, exploration was world-class. I had barely any performance issues. But I fear they missed the mark of the story this time. They disrespected their most popular character by treating her like barely an afterthought, pulled a Miquella/Radahn storyline out of their ass and went against established lore.

I hope someone makes a compelling lore video that clears everything up for me, and it all makes sense. I really don't want to hate the story because I love everything else.

[Key]

Should also mention how this choice, which I am convinced was shoehorned in for fanservice because people just wouldn't shut up about Radahn, also ruins Radahn himself.

Yeah, cool, we get to see prime Radahn, too bad he's puppeted by Miquella, making him, yet again, little more than a mindless zombie we get to put down.

I really love how the "mightiest demigod"'s track record now consists of laying on the ground under Morgott in the opening cinematic to then be destroyed physically by Malenia and Mentally by Miquella. It really contributes to making him look that much more impressive.

Note that Miquella's cross says he discarded his love where he left St. Trina, meaning there's no chance that Radahn is anything but a puppet to him, either.

In addition to this, Mohg also appears a lot less intimidating when you consider he's just another powerless victim with no will of his own.

This DLC managed to barely expand on the lore of the base game and sh*t a bunch of established characters in the process, great f*cking job.

[Quandangle Jones & JimJams]

Originally posted by Key:

Should also mention how this choice, which I am convinced was shoehorned in for fanservice because people just wouldn't shut up about Radahn, also ruins Radahn himself.

Yeah, cool, we get to see prime Radahn, too bad he's puppeted by Miquella, making him, yet again, little more than a mindless zombie we get to put down.

I really love how the "mightiest demigod"'s track record now consists of laying on the ground under Morgott in the opening cinematic to then be destroyed physically by Malenia and Mentally by Miquella. It really contributes to making him look that much more impressive.

Note that Miquella's cross says he discarded his love where he left St. Trina, meaning there's no chance that Radahn is anything but a puppet to him, either.

In addition to this, Mohg also appears a lot less intimidating when you consider he's just another powerless victim with no will of his own.

This DLC managed to barely expand on the lore of the base game and sh*t a bunch of established characters in the process, great f*cking job.

hard agree, it doesn't touch half the cast of characters we wanted to see and assassinates the characters we did see

[★ Moonlight ★]

By the time we meet Miquella, he has already cast away the part of him that made it even possible to care about his sister, and that piece of him became St. Trina.
I do have problems with the writing, but it's not this

[Todd Howard]

Yeah ngl, miquella resurrecting Godwyn instead of radahn would have been hype

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Key:

Note that Miquella's cross says he discarded his love where he left St. Trina, meaning there's no chance that Radahn is anything but a puppet to him, either.

I mean Miquella is cursed with being an 8-year-old in body and mind for all eternity. For those that don't have children, 8-year-olds are pathological liars and sociopathic manipulators that will do anything to get their way until you put a stop to it.

[Quandangle Jones & JimJams]

Originally posted by ★ Moonlight ★:

By the time we meet Miquella, he has already cast away the part of him that made it even possible to care about his sister, and that piece of him became St. Trina.
I do have problems with the writing, but it's not this

well i do, why does the person who wants to create a more gentle world think casting aside their ability to care about others was a good idea? Even going with the obvious answer of "its part of ascending to godhood" its still a valid concern of "but this will directly hinder your goal"

[rhoenix]

Originally posted by Da Onion:

Originally posted by Key:

Should also mention how this choice, which I am convinced was shoehorned in for fanservice because people just wouldn't shut up about Radahn, also ruins Radahn himself.

Yeah, cool, we get to see prime Radahn, too bad he's puppeted by Miquella, making him, yet again, little more than a mindless zombie we get to put down.

I really love how the "mightiest demigod"'s track record now consists of laying on the ground under Morgott in the opening cinematic to then be destroyed physically by Malenia and Mentally by Miquella. It really contributes to making him look that much more impressive.

Note that Miquella's cross says he discarded his love where he left St. Trina, meaning there's no chance that Radahn is anything but a puppet to him, either.

In addition to this, Mohg also appears a lot less intimidating when you consider he's just another powerless victim with no will of his own.

This DLC managed to barely expand on the lore of the base game and sh*t a bunch of established characters in the process, great f*cking job.

hard agree, it doesn't touch half the cast of characters we wanted to see and assassinates the characters we did see

Rellana is another good example. It's implied that she's Rellana's twin sister, which... raises many further questions - like why Rellana's twin sister would willingly go along with the son of the woman who stole her twin's husband.

Or even what the Twin Moons really mean in the context of Rellana and Ranni, because apparently Ranni's long-lost aunt met the Dark Moon too.

[Key]

Originally posted by Da Onion:

Originally posted by ★ Moonlight ★:

By the time we meet Miquella, he has already cast away the part of him that made it even possible to care about his sister, and that piece of him became St. Trina.
I do have problems with the writing, but it's not this

well i do, why does the person who wants to create a more gentle world think casting aside their ability to care about others was a good idea? Even going with the obvious answer of "its part of ascending to godhood" its still a valid concern of "but this will directly hinder your goal"

And if discarding your capacity for love is a requirement for Godhood this opens a whole new can of worms with both Marika and Ranni's ending.

It would straight up mean that nobody you pick as consort isn't a manipulative sociopath, which is just great isn't it.

[Todd Howard]

Originally posted by Da Onion:

Originally posted by ★ Moonlight ★:

By the time we meet Miquella, he has already cast away the part of him that made it even possible to care about his sister, and that piece of him became St. Trina.
I do have problems with the writing, but it's not this

well i do, why does the person who wants to create a more gentle world think casting aside their ability to care about others was a good idea? Even going with the obvious answer of "its part of ascending to godhood" its still a valid concern of "but this will directly hinder your goal"

He was trying to rid himself of "everything golden" because he believed it was tainted so he was trying to bring in a new age without the corruption that was in him and every other person. Same idea with ranni tbh

[Quandangle Jones & JimJams]

Rellana is another good example. It's implied that she's Rellana's twin sister, which... raises many further questions - like why Rellana's twin sister would willingly go along with the son of the woman who stole her twin's husband.

Or even what the Twin Moons really mean in the context of Rellana and Ranni, because apparently Ranni's long-lost aunt met the Dark Moon too.

She feels shoehorned in to give the int players some scraps. the amount of int build additions is so minor its insulting. there was no reason to make the finger equipment not pure int

[CourtesyFlush09]

Originally posted by Key:

Yeah, cool, we get to see prime Radahn, too bad he's puppeted by Miquella, making him, yet again, little more than a mindless zombie we get to put down.

Is he really "Prime" Radahn, though? Item descriptions repeatedly refer to him as the "Young Lion," so I don't think it was him at his strongest.

I actually think the Radahn we see fighting Malenia (before being nuked by Rot) is the strongest version of him. He's way bigger and was single-handedly holding back the stars after waging war with them at the time.

[Quandangle Jones & JimJams]

He was trying to rid himself of "everything golden" because he believed it was tainted so he was trying to bring in a new age without the corruption that was in him and every other person. Same idea with ranni tbh [/quote]
that doesn't change the fact that not having the capacity for empathy will hinder your ability to make an empathetic world

[Key]

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush09:

Originally posted by Key:

Yeah, cool, we get to see prime Radahn, too bad he's puppeted by Miquella, making him, yet again, little more than a mindless zombie we get to put down.

Is he really "Prime" Radahn, though? Item descriptions repeatedly refer to him as the "Young Lion," so I don't think it was him at his strongest.

I actually think the Radahn we see fighting Malenia (before being nuked by Rot) is the strongest version of him. He's way bigger and was single-handedly holding back the stars after waging war with them at the time.

You bring up a great point, we now know what the "stars" are, which also ruins that accomplishment.

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush09:

Is he really "Prime" Radahn, though?

It's only Radahn in spirit too. He's only half Radahn because he's wearing Mohg's body.

[kermit]

i wholly agree with you, op. their fates were described as being inherently intertwined, and we know miq threw aside his fate. but none of that is actually explored in any way at all.

it's also bizarre for them to take the incest/rapey angle on miquella to further villainise him, when they could have done that by actually developing how he abandoned everyone who was previously important to him. it's a very cheap way to be like 'this person is bad, actually' because the natural human reaction to incest/rape is disgust. very very much comes across as a crutch to use instead of developing how someone with good intentions can still do bad things along the way.

like, how we had with ranni- she is sad about it and loves iji and blaidd, but knows that ultimately they are going to die and she is going to leave them behind so that she can become a god. so even if we could say that what she wants is good, she still gives up a lot to do it. it's also important to note that she specifically doesn't want a consort at all. thus, she doesn't NEED one, and had plans to take on radagon and the elden beast on her own anyways. we just happen to help by making the choice to be her consort.

while they still would very much risk just repeating ranni's narrative, they could still do things in an interesting way for miquella, and elaborate on why exactly he needed to go to the land of shadows in order to do it (when ranni doesn't). but we never learn why, and also he just. is able to cure people of stuff now? so then why is it implied that he's abandoning malenia if he is able to do that? if a god doesn't actually need a consort, why is radahn even relevant? why is godwyn never brought up again?

and also why was miquella shown on torrent in promotional material but afaik, we never get anything to do with his relationship to torrent?

so many plot holes.