Radahn is questionably designed in the DLC (spoilers inside)

[IconianCat]

so to preface this i will say i dont necessarily want him nerfed. so much as to find out if im the only one feeling this way towards his design.

im a sorcery user. i am NOT a comet azur user, not that it would help against radahn anyway.

this boss is already challenging enough to fight as a melee. my friend fought him using a raw strength unga bunga build and while he enjoys the fight he also somewhat feels that the boss is just... a bit much in some areas.

fighting him as a sorcery however, feels like you are essentially being given the middle finger by fromsoft. not in his first phase mind you. i can beat his first phase pretty much without issue barring some unlucky opening RNG. but phase 2... oh phase 2... not only are his attacks wider due to the holy barrage enhancement from miquella on his back, making the dodge timing much finer, but his base damage is still high on its own, his attacks are significantly faster, and the after image strikes extend the raw length of each attack from a second at most to upwards of 3-5 seconds depending on the exact move.

he has TWO arena wide moves, being the gravity pull and the holy nuke nova he drops on your head. while i know its theoretically possible to dodge the nuke from miquellas light, the screen itself is filled with so much particle garbage you cant really see the tell from miquella, you have to go by raw timing in your head alone.

now we get to the problem im having. fighting him is challenging enough as is fine. i struggled with messmer as well as a sorcery build dealing with messmers high attacks speed/mobility/damage/range. but messmer at least HAD openings where sorcery could be used to great effect with or without spirit summons.

radahn phase 2 DOESNT. my current loadout is purpose built for shortening casting time and raw damage with lusat's staff, primal glintstone blade to offset the increased FP cost, and beloved stardust with dragoncrest greatshield talisman for extra defense and the braid for holy damage negation. i cant really change any of these talismans. if i lose beloved stardust i cant cast ANYTHING in the fight without grinding my dex to level 99 as beloved stardust simulates 99 casting dex.

im literally casting AS FAST as the game can LET me cast. and the only spells that i can reasonably pop off without risk at all are glintstone shard and pebble. which would take me FOREVER to kill him with as great glintstone cometshard with my current build deals roughly 1000 damage per hit. in phase one its simple enough, get a spirit ash off and it can pull aggro to spam spells into his back, but as soon as phase 2 hits, the added holy damage and number of gravity attacks that pass through guard are so intense it doesnt matter what spirit ash you use, they will die. and once the ash is dead its next to impossible to cast anything against him at all. the windup of the spells even if the spell itself manages to get off is so long that he will be mid swing and likely hit you either directly or with the afterimage/holy barrage on the attack.


of all the bosses i have faced of all the fromsoft games i have played. i have raged plenty against bosses. i have played dex, ive played int, ive done raw spellcast. ive done bleed. i have never encountered a boss where im not even angry or annoyed at the fight but left simply dumbfounded speechless at what im supposed to accomplish to win, until now. because as i can see it right now there is no feasible way for me to win as a caster AT ALL. theres no opening frequent enough no matter how careful you are to safely judge and cast to hit him without relying on a 100-300 damage spell. and no spirit ash in the game has the resistances required to handle the stage 2 onslaught.

yes i COULD go grind out all the scadutree and spirit ash levels and upgrade them beyond the recommended level for radahn's fight but i will still have the problem with openings.

and for the record i have already re-specced my build TWICE in the DLC from a quality caster with rellana's greatswords to a pure caster, with endurance and vigor so i can wear the solitude heavy armor set for gloves, boots and chest piece, and im using the snow witch hat for ranni's dark moon boost.

[Drax]

Not tried him with an Int build yet and don't have much experience using sorceries (loved the boss with my melee build though...), however aren't you forgetting Carian Slicer? You should be able to pretty much rely on Carian Slicer while using Carian Glintblade for the fight. Definitely fast enough and does great damage. Just play it in melee and use the comet/other sorceries when the opportunity presents itself. Radahn is a lot more threatening when you're running away than when you're up close and personal.

Alternatively, you could stack damage negation and basically trade hits with him with some of your more damaging spells though I'm not experienced with hyper armour on sorceries enough to know for sure. Golden Braid + Dragoncrest Greatshield + Lord's Divine Fortification (or if you don't have the faith stat, the lower quality one is only 10 faith and lasts longer), and consumables such as boiled crab and finally Opaline Hardtear. You can probably use a shield too and just turn into a sorcerer tank.

[IconianCat]

Originally posted by Drax:

Not tried him with an Int build yet and don't have much experience using sorceries (loved the boss with my melee build though...), however aren't you forgetting Carian Slicer? You should be able to pretty much rely on Carian Slicer while using Carian Glintblade for the fight. Definitely fast enough and does great damage. Just play it in melee and use the comet/other sorceries when the opportunity presents itself. Radahn is a lot more threatening when you're running away than when you're up close and personal.

Alternatively, you could stack damage negation and basically trade hits with him with some of your more damaging spells though I'm not experienced with hyper armour on sorceries enough to know for sure. Golden Braid + Dragoncrest Greatshield + Lord's Divine Fortification (or if you don't have the faith stat, the lower quality one is only 10 faith and lasts longer), and consumables such as boiled crab and finally Opaline Hardtear. You can probably use a shield too and just turn into a sorcerer tank.

im already stacking damage negation as much as possible. with exclusion of equipping a heavy helm. ive got the gold braid holy talisman and the greatshield physical damage talisman. carian slicer deals 700 damage but youre still beholden to openings and have to get in his face. it still ends up sorta defeating the point of the sorcery aspect

[Drax]

Originally posted by IconianCat:

im already stacking damage negation as much as possible. with exclusion of equipping a heavy helm. ive got the gold braid holy talisman and the greatshield physical damage talisman. carian slicer deals 700 damage but youre still beholden to openings and have to get in his face. it still ends up sorta defeating the point of the sorcery aspect

Should definitely be using consumables + Divine Fortification too if you're not already. Boiled crab is 20% Physical Damage Negation, Holy Proof Dried Liver is 35% Holy Damage Negation, Opaline Hardtear 15% Damage negation, Divine Fortification another 35% Holy Damage Negation (Lord's Divine Fortification = 60%). Talismans and armour alone won't do much. The timed buffs do the most for you.

There's also this video of someone killing him with a mage build: https://youtu.be/ksOCy_sagmE
Basically just stacking attack buffs prior to the fight, immediately nukes him into his second phase by charging spells with the attack buffs. And fights his second phase with Icecrag, choosing to dish out damage during his holy nuke. He does this without many damage negation buffs and getting hit by practically all of Radahn's attacks.

Seems like he still RP walks to get good damage in. If you were to stack your holy damage negation you could also just face tank his holy nukes and use them as good opportunities to stack damage in.

[Zoid13]

the rapid teleport in your face flicker strike attack in phase 2 is the only questionable thing imo.
the rest of the fight is fine.
took me about 12-15 attempts with raptor talons.

[IconianCat]

Originally posted by Drax:

Originally posted by IconianCat:

im already stacking damage negation as much as possible. with exclusion of equipping a heavy helm. ive got the gold braid holy talisman and the greatshield physical damage talisman. carian slicer deals 700 damage but youre still beholden to openings and have to get in his face. it still ends up sorta defeating the point of the sorcery aspect

Should definitely be using consumables + Divine Fortification too if you're not already. Boiled crab is 20% Physical Damage Negation, Holy Proof Dried Liver is 35% Holy Damage Negation, Opaline Hardtear 15% Damage negation, Divine Fortification another 35% Holy Damage Negation (Lord's Divine Fortification = 60%). Talismans and armour alone won't do much. The timed buffs do the most for you.

There's also this video of someone killing him with a mage build: https://youtu.be/ksOCy_sagmE
Basically just stacking attack buffs prior to the fight, immediately nukes him into his second phase by charging spells with the attack buffs. And fights his second phase with Icecrag, choosing to dish out damage during his holy nuke. He does this without many damage negation buffs and getting hit by practically all of Radahn's attacks.

Seems like he still RP walks to get good damage in. If you were to stack your holy damage negation you could also just face tank his holy nukes and use them as good opportunities to stack damage in.

i feel compelled to point out that the reasoning is "use consumables and look its possible with this one guy needed 200 attempts minimum to do it"

this is my point from the outset you need to be on the level of a no hit challenge runner to fight him with sorcery.

this is also incredibly meta seeking as well with "stack attack buffs prior to the fight"

its a questionable design if your argument for why its fair is "you can stack 4 damage reduction buffs and a bunch of attack buffs to one shot nuke him"

[Drax]

Originally posted by IconianCat:

Originally posted by Drax:

Should definitely be using consumables + Divine Fortification too if you're not already. Boiled crab is 20% Physical Damage Negation, Holy Proof Dried Liver is 35% Holy Damage Negation, Opaline Hardtear 15% Damage negation, Divine Fortification another 35% Holy Damage Negation (Lord's Divine Fortification = 60%). Talismans and armour alone won't do much. The timed buffs do the most for you.

There's also this video of someone killing him with a mage build: https://youtu.be/ksOCy_sagmE
Basically just stacking attack buffs prior to the fight, immediately nukes him into his second phase by charging spells with the attack buffs. And fights his second phase with Icecrag, choosing to dish out damage during his holy nuke. He does this without many damage negation buffs and getting hit by practically all of Radahn's attacks.

Seems like he still RP walks to get good damage in. If you were to stack your holy damage negation you could also just face tank his holy nukes and use them as good opportunities to stack damage in.

i feel compelled to point out that the reasoning is "use consumables and look its possible with this one guy needed 200 attempts minimum to do it"

this is my point from the outset you need to be on the level of a no hit challenge runner to fight him with sorcery.

this is also incredibly meta seeking as well with "stack attack buffs prior to the fight"

its a questionable design if your argument for why its fair is "you can stack 4 damage reduction buffs and a bunch of attack buffs to one shot nuke him"

Some people took 200 attempts to beat him in melee... It's also the final boss, and intended to be the most difficult.

You also don't need to stack buffs but you ARE struggling and whining about its difficulty. I'm simply giving you solutions. Not arguing why it's fair. It's fair because you can consistently dodge his attacks while doing consistent damage at range and melee.

[Grimlock]

Fingerprint Shield and Bloody Flies. Call it "No Skill".

[Kai]

I'm guessing in the DLC, these bosses are designed as 'raid' bosses, meaning you need to tackle him with specific setups and a team if your own build isn't covering those setup.

[IconianCat]

Originally posted by Drax:

Originally posted by IconianCat:

i feel compelled to point out that the reasoning is "use consumables and look its possible with this one guy needed 200 attempts minimum to do it"

this is my point from the outset you need to be on the level of a no hit challenge runner to fight him with sorcery.

this is also incredibly meta seeking as well with "stack attack buffs prior to the fight"

its a questionable design if your argument for why its fair is "you can stack 4 damage reduction buffs and a bunch of attack buffs to one shot nuke him"

Some people took 200 attempts to beat him in melee... It's also the final boss, and intended to be the most difficult.

You also don't need to stack buffs but you ARE struggling and whining about its difficulty. I'm simply giving you solutions. Not arguing why it's fair. It's fair because you can consistently dodge his attacks while doing consistent damage at range and melee.

first im not whining about the difficulty. im not asking for him to be nerfed. i am saying quite factually, he is unfun and unfair to fight as a sorcery build. if your only reply to fighting him is "equip these talismans, heavy armor, stack consumables, AND use attack buffs before entering the arena so you can fight him". i even stated in the opening of my post that i dont strictly even WANT him to be nerfed. i just want to know if im the only person feeling that with sorcery specifically this is an unfair boss to deal with. and for all intents and purposes based on your replies the answers are "use this hyper specific tactic and build plus all of these consumables" or youre whining or the alternate option, "go respec your build to use something other than sorcery"

whether or not that fight becomes trivial from buff stacking. is besides the point, it is the same level as when people first reached malenia and the two camps of people who said she was fine and fun to fight were strength build purists and rivers of blood, and it wasnt even a close competition because on release rivers of blood staggerlocked her into oblivion.

[IconianCat]

Originally posted by Kai:

I'm guessing in the DLC, these bosses are designed as 'raid' bosses, meaning you need to tackle him with specific setups and a team if your own build isn't covering those setup.

if this is the case i havent found what the setup is supposed to be as far as ashes and stuff go. because if the intention is around player builds as well then im inclined to believe based on my own testing that spirit ashes dont even factor into the picture because i havent found a single ashe worth a damn at tanking or drawing aggro long enough for it to matter.

[zab]

every attack being AoE that lags my game
yeah I don't like this boss

[Em Mim]

Last boss is the best, that's all

[BKo]

Took me like 10 hours with a faith build and Leda's sword the first time. On NG+ with dancer of ranah duel wield (this is also not a very good build) 3 tries. The ♥♥♥♥ is beyond unbalanced. It's not even about experience either. If I try my old build again, which had no problems with anything else in the game, I'm sure it'll take me hours to win again.

[IconianCat]

okay so i have now respecced my build FOUR times just for radahn. without abandoning my core build philosophy as a pure caster. and i will now say definitively, this boss is objectively unfair to pure casters.


the video linked earlier of a "sorcery build" fighting him amounted to spamming carian sovereignty for 6000 damage a hit in phase one and then spamming glintstone icecrag and carian sovereignty where possible in phase 2 while facetanking and abusing absorption buffs.

if your only chance at beating him as a "caster" is facetanking in heavy armor and using a GREATSWORD with hyper armor on an ash of war and multi buffing before the boss, this is not BALANCED. its enforcing players to skim half a dozen wiki articles to find a bunch of items they may not even know EXIST just for a CHANCE to kill the boss.


for a pure caster wanting to do ranged builds on radahn you are also FORCED to use a DLC talisman that is part of an OPTIONAL SIDE QUEST.

BELOVED STARDUST. it is literally the equivalent of making a boss that is too fast for a strength build to hit and then adding a ring that speeds up the attack animation to let them hit the boss with colossal weapons. otherwise a caster has to manually level dex to 99 to get the same effect as beloved stardust. and it is effectively mandatory because of how fast radahn is.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Originally posted by zab:

every attack being AoE that lags my game
yeah I don't like this boss

Literally what happened to me on my 4080. There was no way I could beat the boss because the lag spikes were causing my dodges to not register. So, I went full cheese mode with the Antspur Rapier and a heavy shield. Killed him first try.