What's wrong with using Spirit Summons?

[Bigboss PC Faster]

?

[Dam Stark]

Originally posted by Truth Bringer:

Originally posted by Sacko:

yeah no, i dont give a damn if its easier. i care about people shunning people for using them because its easier. thats just hate. why cant you just say "good job killing the boss, if you want to challenge yourself even more, maybe next time you try using no summons" make it about the journey, stop hating. people can improve fast if you give them positive reassurance.

Here is the point of view alot of them have and here is what it comes down to . Would you say that the person who learned to paint and then became skilled at it is better than someone who uses ai to make a painting and then claimed it for themselves? So having summons is like that.

For ones that help the summons its like putting in words you want to see in the ai and creating the picture technically you did do some of the work. Others however just mash the random button ( putting in no effort ) and letting the AI do all the work. Now is there anything wrong with letting AI create works of art for you. Well no if thats what someone wants to do they can. However i would not consider it the same skill level nor would i consider it the same accomplishment as someone who works hard and does it themselves.

These things are just not the same. Does that make the person who created the AI painting less than the person who worked for it and got skill? No, but to say they are equal isn't true. They just aren't the same. So where would the line be and should there be one? If the person who is skilled at art and the person who used ai to create it gave it both away for free. Would you respect one more than the other? Maybe ....maybe not but i can't really fault others for the way they see people who use summons. I personally do both. I play the games solo but, i also play with my others i know and sometimes (rarely ) npcs .

Yeah pretty much. Anything that takes skill works like this. People will downplay it by calling it "just a game" but this is true for sports or anything else in life really. It's valuable for those that value it and the rest don't get it.

[Despiser]

I don't know why this is even brought up. You can play solo, coop up to 4 players, or 1 spirit ash. The choice is yours and the game is designed for any of those styles.

[poppindancers]

Originally posted by Haru:

Originally posted by poppindancers:

Do you always jump through your own hoop?

I have no idea what you mean.

Exactly!

[Dam Stark]

I climbed atop some towers with torrent. Was that intended? Probably not. It was really hard. There was no item up there, you were not intended to go there. Yet there was a single message from another player "well done".

This encapsulates what these games are all about for me. Souls communities form through overcoming challenges the "hard way". Play the game however you want but don't expect everyone to agree on what is "best" as people take away different experiences from the game.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by poppindancers:

Originally posted by Haru:

I have no idea what you mean.

Exactly!

So you not having idea of what he mean mean he dont have idea of what he mean?

Originally posted by poppindancers:

Do you always jump through your own hoop?

Nice way to say "I dont care what you just wrote therefore I dont agree neither disagree, I just disregard and try to look funny".

[Haru]

Originally posted by poppindancers:

Originally posted by Haru:

I have no idea what you mean.

Exactly!

haha ur mum

[Kawalorn]

Originally posted by Kandidaten:

Originally posted by Kawalorn:

The point of this statement is that people who use Ashes are so vitriolic towards people who don't because they hate being pointed out that Ashes are an easy mode. People forbidding others from using Ashes is a myth made up by Ash users who are mad at those who don't.

But you wouldn't play other games without using the game mechanics most likely? I don't get why this one is so divided. Of course it is harder if you don't use what the game gives you. Why not have no Crimson Tear flasks, or physick, the game gets harder then, too.

No, I wouldn't play games and flip the easy mode no matter how many times it's available.

Spirit Summons do not add to the gameplay. They take it away. Like Warp Pipes in Mario.

I don't like how many times people have to explain that Spirit Summons literally break boss AI allowing players not to engage with their mechanics at all. They are in no way comparable to any other tool in the game people whataboutism about.

[Weczer]

Originally posted by Bigboss PC Faster:

?

It doesn't feel right to use them. No satisfaction from the boss fight.

[Fawks]

Spirit Ashes are simply providing access to the long requested "Easy Mode". Depending on which Ashes you use the difficulty of boss fights goes down accordingly.
If you are sick of fighting a boss and just want to progress it's perfectly fine to use them.
I dont use them personally cause I am a bit masochistic when it comes to these games.

[NDRZ]

nothing is wrong brother

[daycamp]

Nothing is wrong with it.

[surreptitious]

Originally posted by John Titor:

Originally posted by Loopy:

Nothing, it just significantly reduces the fun in the game as bosses were not designed for summoning. It's a tool for help for people who cannot do it alone. That's okay, but it's not the integral crucial mechanic the summoners pretend it is. Bosses were always meant to be fought 1v1, it's THE trademark of a FS game.

You're the sweatiest sweat who ever sweated sweat. Even Brut can't handle those pitstains.

Those are potato chip stains.
Same shirt on since DLC release.

[John Titor]

Originally posted by surreptitious:

Originally posted by John Titor:

You're the sweatiest sweat who ever sweated sweat. Even Brut can't handle those pitstains.

Those are potato chip stains.
Same shirt on since DLC release.

Gotta keep those chips warm somehow. The pits are as good a place as any I suppose.

[Loopy]

Originally posted by Kawalorn:

Originally posted by Kandidaten:

But you wouldn't play other games without using the game mechanics most likely? I don't get why this one is so divided. Of course it is harder if you don't use what the game gives you. Why not have no Crimson Tear flasks, or physick, the game gets harder then, too.

No, I wouldn't play games and flip the easy mode no matter how many times it's available.

Spirit Summons do not add to the gameplay. They take it away. Like Warp Pipes in Mario.

I don't like how many times people have to explain that Spirit Summons literally break boss AI allowing players not to engage with their mechanics at all. They are in no way comparable to any other tool in the game people whataboutism about.

It's because these people are so insecure they'll throw an instant tantrum at you when you mention summonings make you miss out on experiencing the game to its fullest.

Nobody is denying they're a mechanic, nobody gives a ♥♥♥♥ about you summoning. People started to speak up when all ER discourse was getting spammed with "Cheesing and summoning are completely valid strategies and are what the devs want you to do" etc (literally top posts of all time on /r/eldenring) that was never there before ER. It's trying to counter the nonsense that the game was designed to cheese and use summons. It really wasn't. Summons are a built in easy mode because they trivialize all boss fights. They have existed since DS1 and never was this a controversial opinion. Boss fights were designed with only one opponent in mind. Use them, nobody cares, but stop whining 24/7 about non-existent elitists who bully you on the internet. You're projecting your own insecurity on others because deep inside you know you missed out on the FromSoft difficulty that made these games famous in the first place.

The anti-summons discussion is a reaction, not a cause. If you people would have shut up for one second about le epic cheesing and summoning nobody would've cared about how you play the game. It's you who is trying to find the validation on the internet, it's you who cares about how others play the game, it's literally all projection.

[Dam Stark]

so true