The one hard thing in the DLC is the navigation

[Michel Baie]

Forget bosses, forget damage numbers, forget Tree Bark hunting, the hardest part of the DLC is knowing how TF you're supposed to access whole parts of the land.

Plus the map is often useless in giving you clues or even, well, as a map since it won't show you where you are.

[Scarr]

Map is useless, the verticality of the DLC is annoying

[paincanbefun]

i find both the verticality and also the relative lack of stuff to create navigation challenge

[ssj grumpig]

Felt. Playing blind was an absolute nightmare at times

[necuz]

I found figuring out how to get somewhere to be a cool puzzle, way more engaging than the base game map that's like every other open world game most of the time.

[Elthrael]

Originally posted by necuz:

I found figuring out how to get somewhere to be a cool puzzle, way more engaging than the base game map that's like every other open world game most of the time.

I find it's a bit cheap at times. Even if you use actual map reading skills like tracing gorges and ravines back to their source etc., and you THINK you've found where you're supposed to go, it just throws an insta-death ledge there to throw you off.

Some areas also can't be accessed unless you go through a tomb or cave, which I simultaneously think it's cool and annoying, cool because it forces you to fight enemies that kind of signal where this is going moving forward, but annoying since the "navigation puzzle" as @necuz said above is basically lost to "go through here".

[Michel Baie]

Originally posted by Elthrael:

Originally posted by necuz:

I found figuring out how to get somewhere to be a cool puzzle, way more engaging than the base game map that's like every other open world game most of the time.

I find it's a bit cheap at times. Even if you use actual map reading skills like tracing gorges and ravines back to their source etc., and you THINK you've found where you're supposed to go, it just throws an insta-death ledge there to throw you off.

Some areas also can't be accessed unless you go through a tomb or cave, which I simultaneously think it's cool and annoying, cool because it forces you to fight enemies that kind of signal where this is going moving forward, but annoying since the "navigation puzzle" as @necuz said above is basically lost to "go through here".

This.
And when it's not going through a dungeon, it's finding a random ladder.

I agree it's a nice puzzle to have, but it could've been way better.

[ssj grumpig]

You don't like entire zones and bosses being hidden behind random illusion walls and concealed stairwells opened by an emote on the other side of the map?

Yeah tbh I could do without the Nintendo Power secrets as well :D

[Todd Howard]

Originally posted by Hibachi:

Forget bosses, forget damage numbers, forget Tree Bark hunting, the hardest part of the DLC is knowing how TF you're supposed to access whole parts of the land.

Plus the map is often useless in giving you clues or even, well, as a map since it won't show you where you are.

The base game had the same problem, but it's an open world game, the map isn't suppose to be linear you are meant to explore.

[Elthrael]

Originally posted by Porcelain:

Originally posted by Hibachi:

Forget bosses, forget damage numbers, forget Tree Bark hunting, the hardest part of the DLC is knowing how TF you're supposed to access whole parts of the land.

Plus the map is often useless in giving you clues or even, well, as a map since it won't show you where you are.

The base game had the same problem, but it's an open world game, the map isn't suppose to be linear you are meant to explore.

Honestly, the worst part of the base game map, for me, was the giant cave + plain in Liurnia. That part was a nightmare to navigate because the top part was what was represented on the map while your actual movement was below that. Getting to the top part itself was an entire questline IIRC.

Mt. Gelmir was also a piece of work but that part I understood, because, well, mapping mountains is hard, mapping mountains well is next to impossible.

BTW, this complaint has nothing to do with the game not being linear. The problem arises precisely because it's NOT linear. We WANT to explore, we want to go "down there" or "up there", but the problem I have is that there's one fairly obscure way of getting there. I'm not against that, but there should be more than one way of getting to a place (like bypassing Stormveil for example, that was awesome). In some cases, apparently, like Jagged Peak, there is (apparently I got there via the "alternative way", a friend told me).

[James P. Sullivan Truck]

Originally posted by Scarr:

Map is useless, the verticality of the DLC is annoying

the map is useless but also not useless however i disagree with the verticality being annoying they did it so well it forces you to try and explore

[AkumaOuja]

Originally posted by Porcelain:

Originally posted by Hibachi:

Forget bosses, forget damage numbers, forget Tree Bark hunting, the hardest part of the DLC is knowing how TF you're supposed to access whole parts of the land.

Plus the map is often useless in giving you clues or even, well, as a map since it won't show you where you are.

The base game had the same problem, but it's an open world game, the map isn't suppose to be linear you are meant to explore.

This would have more legs to if if the core of the main game wasn't more or less a single curve. Open world, sure, but there's a clear progression arc from Limgrave to Farum. Yeah there's hidden stuff and a few optional sections but not only are they way better signposted relatively [Ranni's quest is weird but only the last stretch is particularly complicated, Mogh can be accessed multiple ways, Caelid and the Weeping Pennisula you can literally just walk into them, the Haligtree is at least kinda built up as a mystery for you to find, etc] but the map is just flat out easier to navigate due to way, way less verticality. Rauh is the example I immediately think of because despite being kinda mandatory it's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nightmare to find any ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ way through it.

[Mushroom]

It'd be nice if there were more alternative routes to return to previous areas like how those locked Spirit Springs. I think what they wanted to go for was to emphasize the effect of entering an area of the first time. But, then again, there are so many ravines and canyons and "connected" areas that should be more emphasized on the map.

[Persona Au Gratin]

The map is really designed in this kind of asinine way where it's hard to really isolate or boil down whether a place you're looking at requires you to approach it from a completely different part of the map, or some vertical segment. And I think the more egregious/annoying thing was just getting some milquetoast reward for it all. Like a Starlight Shard.

Also, someone saying the base game had the same problem is kind of missing the point that in the base game, you at least don't have SCORES of the items that the DLC throws at you meaninglessly. Why are there starting upgrade items when, by that point, you can buy level 1-6 Somber and normal smithing stones and potentially myriad other things. You don't need that kind of stuff, if the DLC is designed for end game characters or at least near end game... the loot being so tepid is what makes a lot of the exploration so unsatisfying and outright stupid.