Shadow of The Erdtree Final Boss Thoughts **SPOILERS**

[Caruxis]

So I have finally made my way to the final boss of Shadow of The Erdtree. I know there have been a lot of people saying this DLC is overly difficult, and I do not agree with 99% of those criticisms. I have felt that every boss I have fought has had a way to deal with it, even if it took me awhile (Except maybe Gaius, who I didn't enjoy) and overall I enjoyed myself greatly...

Aaaaand then I reached the final boss. So, Radahn, Consort of Miquella. I know some people don't seem to like the lore around the boss, but I actually kinda like how nuts it is. Seeing Miquella do something this crazy and weird is kinda cool in my opinion.

But the fight itself man...it's rough.

Phase 1 is actually not too bad. It's intense, but hey a final boss should be pretty tough. It's phase 2 that I have a big issue with. It just feels really messy. Like, I can barely land a hit on him because of how much he moves around and how crazy the attacks are.

Now let me preempt what some people are going to say. I know that I could change my build to a hyper specific build for this boss. I know I could grind to a higher lvl. I know I could do a number of things to make it easier...

But my problem is, I hate the idea I have to play the game in a way that isn't what I originally found fun. Needing to change gears and respec my whole character just to beat this one boss feels so deflating.

So, long rant over, does anyone else feel this way, or am I just a complainer?

EDIT:

I've actually seen some people mention that Miquella's consort should have been Godwyn, which I'm super surprised I didn't think of, and now am super double surprised that's not the case. It seems like such an obvious way to go with it. You wouldn't even need to change the plot using Mohg's body and Radahn's soul, just make it about reviving Godwyn instead.

[dafydd]

completely valid argument, this boss soured my entire DLC experience base on the fact that it is nearly impossible to learn his move in the first 50 tries because you think your build is good enough to do so, you cant, so respec into a poise monster and bleed proc. So boring so chaotic in second phase that I really cant even tell what combo hes gonna do cause its masked by the flashbangs exploding around you every time he hits.

[dj_bzrk]

i have tried with this final boss about 100 times and have failed.... unless any of you want to help a brother out?

[Krazy Wallet]

I haven't beaten him yet but have gotten very, very close (no, I'm not crying because of that pixel of health). There are a few exceptions, but I find that I need to be extremely close to Radahn or I'll get clipped by the pillars of light. When I say close, I'm constantly rolling into his stomach. I've also found that many of his spinning attacks expect you to go from left to right, where the pillars will clip you again and sometimes combo you into Radahn's swings. Rolling clockwise through his attacks appears to be much safer where you are only dealing with Radahn and not Miquella.

This fight is tough as nails solo, but I've found it to be quite exciting. Been stuck on him for 4 hours but you can learn his patterns. I've been able to dodge all of his big attacks for the most part. It's getting struck by one of his roll-catching sweeps, or a random pillar of light that drains me of my healing in a protracted engagement that does me in.

[Baibarss]

I’ve beaten every boss and optional boss in this game and DLC. But the final boss in this DLC is absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ garbage. This was the first and last FromSoftware game I’ll ever play and not going to bother with this one. If some game designer thinks his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ego is more important than making good mechanics and good design, and I start to despise the game (happened multiple times in this game), then they can all go to hell. I want to play games for fun, not to get vigorously infuriated. Life is too short for this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Tr3m0r]

Originally posted by Baibarss:

Final Boss in this DLC is absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ garbage. This was the first and last FromSoftware game I’ll ever play. If some game designer thinks his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ego is more important than making good mechanics and good design, and I start to despise the game, then they can all go to hell. I want to play a game for fun, not to get viscously infuriated. Life is too short for that.

I think you are overlooking some very valid reasons these things are inevitable. Let me explain. Consider the difficulty in having a DLC with these variables:
1. Some players are level 100 and some are 400.
2. Some have a maximized OP build and others are doing a standard weapon and utilities.
3. The sheer number of weapons, weapon types, talismans, and consumables that can be used
4. Given the mostly open ended map layout and numerous approaches people can take that will lead them to areas and bosses at much different times

I'm sure there's way more variables but those alone are HUGE and yet, overall, most people were able to still get a Fromsoft Challenging experience that they are know for while accounting for so many variables like what I mentioned.

This is far different than lies of p for example that's quite linear and much easier to account for. Even weapons and upgrades are linear and planned.

So for me, that's why elden ring has truly met it's absolute "limit" when it's referenced by the studio. There's just so many ways to approach the game that any more and it would truly be universally hated.

Why?

Because that's how they had to account for those things I listed in order to give the huge range and mega damage blasphemous build an experience that's still challenging while somehow making it still possible to play with the no summons, B tier standard gear player.

Here's my honest theory on their thinking for the old consort radahn pre-nerf: "they are gonna call summons ASAP entering the arena after they megadosed their elixirs so we will input read more aggressively. The blasphemous blade range will be mitigated by faster attacks that make performing it not a given, especially when used with a summons. However the skill of those players are lower than the B tier players who are at the same level and boss. But those players won't be using those tactics and will probably enjoy a rather predictable rush most session starts as they learn patterns faster. The players who are very adept at learning the specific moments to time dodges will have a harder time with the AOE particle effects cranked up to make it more confusing and difficult to learn the patterns."

My point is, respectfully, i don't see this at all as some egotistical developer or studio trying to make poor decisions and think it's the opposite. It's the actual inevitability of where the game now is and how the players have evolved with it along with limitations of Ai which is all prediction based anyway.

[Key]

I am almost entirely convinced Radahn was never meant to be in the DLC, but FS caved due to the hype around "prime Radahn". There isn't a single mention of him by name anywhere except the final fight, and even then he essentially just shows up as a mindless puppet, you beat him, get the dream cutscene, and that's it. Compare this to how, in previous FS DLCs everything revolves around the main antagonist, from Manus/Artorias, to Friede/Ariandel in the painted world and Gael in the Ringed City.

There's also plenty of cut content suggesting that the ending and lore was initially completely different, even going as far as having a whole ending in which you side with Miquella. Unfortunately it can't be proven, but it feels shoehorned in to an excessive degree if you ask me.

[Baibarss]

Originally posted by Tr3m0r:

Originally posted by Baibarss:

Final Boss in this DLC is absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ garbage. This was the first and last FromSoftware game I’ll ever play. If some game designer thinks his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ego is more important than making good mechanics and good design, and I start to despise the game, then they can all go to hell. I want to play a game for fun, not to get viscously infuriated. Life is too short for that.

I think you are overlooking some very valid reasons these things are inevitable. Let me explain. Consider the difficulty in having a DLC with these variables:
1. Some players are level 100 and some are 400.
2. Some have a maximized OP build and others are doing a standard weapon and utilities.
3. The sheer number of weapons, weapon types, talismans, and consumables that can be used
4. Given the mostly open ended map layout and numerous approaches people can take that will lead them to areas and bosses at much different times

I'm sure there's way more variables but those alone are HUGE and yet, overall, most people were able to still get a Fromsoft Challenging experience that they are know for while accounting for so many variables like what I mentioned.

This is far different than lies of p for example that's quite linear and much easier to account for. Even weapons and upgrades are linear and planned.

So for me, that's why elden ring has truly met it's absolute "limit" when it's referenced by the studio. There's just so many ways to approach the game that any more and it would truly be universally hated.

Why?

Because that's how they had to account for those things I listed in order to give the huge range and mega damage blasphemous build an experience that's still challenging while somehow making it still possible to play with the no summons, B tier standard gear player.

Here's my honest theory on their thinking for the old consort radahn pre-nerf: "they are gonna call summons ASAP entering the arena after they megadosed their elixirs so we will input read more aggressively. The blasphemous blade range will be mitigated by faster attacks that make performing it not a given, especially when used with a summons. However the skill of those players are lower than the B tier players who are at the same level and boss. But those players won't be using those tactics and will probably enjoy a rather predictable rush most session starts as they learn patterns faster. The players who are very adept at learning the specific moments to time dodges will have a harder time with the AOE particle effects cranked up to make it more confusing and difficult to learn the patterns."

My point is, respectfully, i don't see this at all as some egotistical developer or studio trying to make poor decisions and think it's the opposite. It's the actual inevitability of where the game now is and how the players have evolved with it along with limitations of Ai which is all prediction based anyway.

I’m using a Blasphemous build and I still can’t beat him. I’m level 218 with enough Vigor and Faith to make beating other bosses nothing in comparison. I have collected enough scadtree shards to know I’m ready. But I don’t think any of this matters. The overall design of the fight is super frustrating (specifically that second phase). It’s basically RNG. If the boss focuses on you and not your summons, you’re done. No mater what you do, because these attackers are unavoidable and they hit very hard. The time the boss turns the attention to the summons is the only time you might have a chance to heal and hit. Then when it focuses back on you again, it’s over. So you’re basically hoping that RNG works in your favour. That’s a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid design. Not to mention how difficult to predict where the hit boxes are going to be due to the ridiculous movement speed and the terrible camera that you constantly have to also fight with.

I just don’t understand why do they have to make this so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ difficult? What’s the gain here? Is it to maintain a reputation thing? That “Souls games are the pinnacle of difficulty”? Because it seems to me that’s the only reason you would want to constantly design terrible bosses that many of your player-base (even those who love Souls games) are constantly complaining about, but yet nothing was done to change that from the devs. I call that ego.