why is life so difficult for Sorcery users in ER?

[ChrisTheEnby]

I'm been stuck in what still feels like the early game for forever and haven't been able to enjoy myself as a magic user. I still can't beat rennala, because i either die in the first phase when you have to fight the students because i get 1-2 shot by all of the stuff being flung around frome very direction, or the times I do make it to phase 2 I end up dying because I end up burning through my flasks really quickly because I can barely deal any damage to Rennala. Most normal magic doesn't seem to hurt her that much, and because I game my rapier int-scaling, it comes with the side-effect of changing it's damage type to magic, which Rennala resists.

I do have the the Rock Throw spell from Caelid that doens't do the usual magic damage and that works a little bit better but i either run out of FP or die because it's got a bit of a windup to it's cast time, so it's harder to avoid getting hit by a lot of Rennala's attacks.

I don't think I could just go somewhere else, Caelid (other than my brief excursion to get the Meteorite staff and Rock Throw) seems a lot harder than Liurnia/Raya Lucaria and I feel like i'm not supposed to be there yet, meanwhile I think I can't move on to the other area to the north until Rennala is defeated. (I think?) So I don't know what else I could be doing instead if it's just a lack of items or stats or what.

I thought it would be helpful to provide a screenshot of my current stats/spell allocations, and I can go over my gear as well if needed.

https://imgur.com/a/FUfMH2g

I know everything not relating to spellcasting is currently really low, but I think that's one big thing that's tripping me up is Sorceries feel like they have an absurb stat requirement in Elden Ring, given the levels of Int you need to even slot new spells. even with this amount of investment in int, I till don't have quite enough to slot comet, and I hear the int requirements for the later spells only ramp up more and more, so i feel like I never truly have an "opening" to level vigor or to get more stamina, or meet the str/dex requirements for better armor and weapons, even as I am now I don't really wanna lose a light roll because I feel like light-rolling is super important for casters.

In Dark Souls 3, I did not have this problem because in Dark Souls 3 you could get away with WAY less int as long as you slotted the right spells and upgraded your staff, meaning you had more freedom to level health and stamina, Because you didn't need a ton of int you could worry not worry about needing enough int and level health and stamina more openly because the minimum int requirements were never all that high.

But in Elden Ring, it almost feels like you're obligated to like start as a standard melee build with the survivability stats that maybe lightly dabbles in magic, and only grab the large amounts int to be an actual caster in the lategate when you're already sitting on a ton of health, but it feel like it's easier to get that build staple 60 vigor as a melee build because str/dex requires less investment to do decent damage compared to magic.

was the whole idea that they wanted to lower the power level of sorceries in Elden Ring, or at least make them require high investment because of complaints people had in previous games about magic being "easy mode" in games like Dark Souls3? Because it certainly seems like they accomplished that...

[SolusiRadikal]

Level 42 on dlc? Why? Are you doing challenge run or something? Because Shadow Lands has higher soul gain than the last zone on base game

[Faust Wither]

because it required real int, not just pew pew.

[Dollmaker]

Yup though as much, it’s your Vigor.

Vig should be your priority early in the game, 15 Vig is WAY too low in general.

For Liurna it should be close to 30 at minimum.

Early in the game the weapon upgrade will carry you further than scaling, so don’t worry much about infusing the weapon with Magic, it isn’t until higher upgrades/level that Scaling truly matters.

[epreber0809]

You need more vigor if your dying 1-2 shot from flying books brother... You really want to go for 50 vigor. and Defiantly want 60 for the DLC... If you make it that far. Glass cannons are for no hit pros...

[Zoid13]

heh my mate found renalla the hardest boss in the base game as a magic user lol. he was on her for 2 days lol. i killed her first go in seconds with raptor talons lol

[epreber0809]

Originally posted by SolusiRadikal:

Level 42 on dlc? Why? Are you doing challenge run or something? Because Shadow Lands has higher soul gain than the last zone on base game

Dude he said Rennala not Rellana. He isn't in the DLC at all.

Also. Are you exploring some to get upgrade shards for you wepons? Get most of your attack boosts early game from wepon upgrades not stat boosts. Just use minimum int for your spells/gear and try using the talisman that buffs magic def for the boss.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

heh my mate found renalla the hardest boss in the base game as a magic user lol. i killed her first go in seconds with raptor talons lol

Tbf, Rennala despite being usually easy, can be rough for early magic users due to her high Magic Resistance

[SolusiRadikal]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

heh my mate found renalla the hardest boss in the base game as a magic user lol. he was on her for 2 days lol. i killed her first go in seconds with raptor talons lol

Most likely you got more level than OP, i mean level 42 on DLC...let alone able progress to renalla with low level blessing most likely is already an achievement by itself

[Zoid13]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Originally posted by Zoid13:

heh my mate found renalla the hardest boss in the base game as a magic user lol. i killed her first go in seconds with raptor talons lol

Tbf, Rennala despite being usually easy, can be rough for early magic users due to her high Magic Resistance

yeh i know. i just found ti funny. shes liek the easiest boss in the game for melee lol

Originally posted by SolusiRadikal:

Most likely you got more level than OP, i mean level 42 on DLC...let alone able progress to renalla with low level blessing most likely is already an achievement by itself

nah i was melee not magic.
oh only just noticed. i said base game renalla not dlc rellana

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by SolusiRadikal:

Originally posted by Zoid13:

heh my mate found renalla the hardest boss in the base game as a magic user lol. he was on her for 2 days lol. i killed her first go in seconds with raptor talons lol

Most likely you got more level than OP, i mean level 42 on DLC...let alone able progress to renalla with low level blessing most likely is already an achievement by itself

My guy, he’s on Rennala, not Rellana.

Aka the lady with the banana crown 👑

[MidnightMist]

You're kind of at the ONLY place in the game that is hard for magic users.

[ChrisTheEnby]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Yup though as much, it’s your Vigor.

Vig should be your priority early in the game, 15 Vig is WAY too low in general.

For Liurna it should be close to 30 at minimum.

Early in the game the weapon upgrade will carry you further than scaling, so don’t worry much about infusing the weapon with Magic, it isn’t until higher upgrades/level that Scaling truly matters.

To be fair, i'm just finding it difficult to find an opening to really put points into vigor, and it' s not because i'm worried about level scaling, i'm worried about the spell progression path, even with 30+ int right now, i have comet but can't slot it until 50-some int? So if I spend time leveling vigor a ton, i'm not making progress of the spell progression path because of the absurd slot requirements for spells. For comparison, Soul Spear, the mid game bnb spell in Dark Souls 3 is like 30-some int, and that spell carries you for quite a while, Crystal Soul Spear you can't even learn until Grand Archives and you've probably been waiting on the next spell for a while and had probably been leveling health/stamina at that point, and 40-some for a better soul spear is less of an ask than then 50-ish int you need in Elden Ring for comet, and Liurnia is apparently nowhere even NEAR the midgame?

[DarkFenix]

Originally posted by ChrisTheEnby:

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Yup though as much, it’s your Vigor.

Vig should be your priority early in the game, 15 Vig is WAY too low in general.

For Liurna it should be close to 30 at minimum.

Early in the game the weapon upgrade will carry you further than scaling, so don’t worry much about infusing the weapon with Magic, it isn’t until higher upgrades/level that Scaling truly matters.

To be fair, i'm just finding it difficult to find an opening to really put points into vigor, and it' s not because i'm worried about level scaling, i'm worried about the spell progression path, even with 30+ int right now, i have comet but can't slot it until 50-some int? So if I spend time leveling vigor a ton, i'm not making progress of the spell progression path because of the absurd slot requirements for spells. For comparison, Soul Spear, the mid game bnb spell in Dark Souls 3 is like 30-some int, and that spell carries you for quite a while, Crystal Soul Spear you can't even learn until Grand Archives and you've probably been waiting on the next spell for a while and had probably been leveling health/stamina at that point, and 40-some for a better soul spear is less of an ask than then 50-ish int you need in Elden Ring for comet, and Liurnia is apparently nowhere even NEAR the midgame?

"Spell progression" is a noob trap, most of the best spells in Elden Ring are in fact fairly low end mundane ones.

You can easily finish the game casting only glintstone pebble, stop levelling int, get lots more vigor. 30 would suffice for now, by mid-game you want 40, going into the DLC you probably want 60.

[ChrisTheEnby]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Originally posted by ChrisTheEnby:

To be fair, i'm just finding it difficult to find an opening to really put points into vigor, and it' s not because i'm worried about level scaling, i'm worried about the spell progression path, even with 30+ int right now, i have comet but can't slot it until 50-some int? So if I spend time leveling vigor a ton, i'm not making progress of the spell progression path because of the absurd slot requirements for spells. For comparison, Soul Spear, the mid game bnb spell in Dark Souls 3 is like 30-some int, and that spell carries you for quite a while, Crystal Soul Spear you can't even learn until Grand Archives and you've probably been waiting on the next spell for a while and had probably been leveling health/stamina at that point, and 40-some for a better soul spear is less of an ask than then 50-ish int you need in Elden Ring for comet, and Liurnia is apparently nowhere even NEAR the midgame?

"Spell progression" is a noob trap, most of the best spells in Elden Ring are in fact fairly low end mundane ones.

You can easily finish the game casting only glintstone pebble, stop levelling int, get lots more vigor. 30 would suffice for now, by mid-game you want 40, going into the DLC you probably want 60.

That's pretty wild because i distinctly remember in Dark Souls 3 that when you go from the tier 2-tier 3 soul arrow to soul spear your damage majorly spikes, like it's completely night and day difference. are the later spells in elden ring that bad/nerfed that you're using glintstone pebble in the mid to late game?

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by ChrisTheEnby:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

"Spell progression" is a noob trap, most of the best spells in Elden Ring are in fact fairly low end mundane ones.

You can easily finish the game casting only glintstone pebble, stop levelling int, get lots more vigor. 30 would suffice for now, by mid-game you want 40, going into the DLC you probably want 60.

That's pretty wild because i distinctly remember in Dark Souls 3 that when you go from the tier 2-tier 3 soul arrow to soul spear your damage majorly spikes, like it's completely night and day difference. are the later spells in elden ring that bad/nerfed that you're using glintstone pebble in the mid the late game?

Some are.

But for sorcery a lot of spells will suck until you have really high Int.

Early in the game you’re better relying on the Pebble since it’s cheap and reliable, while focusing on leveling your Vigor.

If you’re planing to focus on spell casting then you’re priorities should be something like this:

Vig > Mind > Int > End > Weapon Requirements