Combat is a Step Back

[Beans]

I've finished everything but one or 2 bosses now and I have a better understanding of the difficulty of this DLC. I think FromSoftware's Soulsbourne control scheme doesn't work for how fast they want the game to move. The way the game reads inputs is too clunky and slow. The skills to combat the speed of enemies are trapped in a clunky R2 stance/ashe of war system. It's a huge step back for combat in Soulsbourne games as it leads more into being frustrating then fun. There are far too many instances of a enemy becoming a brick wall with their extremely long attack strings that don't have dodge/parry windows, their infinite poise, and attacks that instantly stun you. You either have to have god like reflexes, get lucky, or find the random ashe of war/weapon designed specificaly for whatever BS pattern this enemy has(It's still Lions Claw, nothing else comes close; which is disappointing). It's too frustrating and it doesn't have to be.

I know FromSoftware can make fast combat work. Sekiro moves very fast but has a better parry system to handle it. Bloodbourne is clunky but weapon transformations feel better then the Ashes of War and you gain health back on hit which balances the aggressiveness of enemies. But I don't think it works here. Some enemies do so much poise damage that if you get hit once, even if it's for nothing, you are stuck in their attack string, there's no way out, and it usually means death. You can't parry if you don't have the right Ashe of War and Sekiro does a better job telegraphing attacks. You can't survive how aggressive the enemy is because you can't heal between attacks like in Bloodbourne by attacking through the aggressiveness. Enemies attack faster then you can heal and the poise damage they do prevents you from healing since you basically lose all control of your character for long stretches of time. The game does provide items to make Elden Ring play more like these games but you need extremely specific items and it just doesn't work as well as it does in other games. In most cases they work against you by locking you into super specific playstyles.

To be clear, I enjoy this game. Most enemies aren't as oppressive as this post makes them sound. I just think it doesn't have to be as frustrating as it is. I enjoyed every boss fight in the DLC other then Mesmer(haven't fought the final boss and won't spoil). Rallana and the bleed boss after Mesmer were highlights. Loved fighting those bosses. But Mesmer and the mausoleum spirit bosses I just don't think were designed well for this game and when you go up against these enemies the game stops being fun. When I beat Mesmer I did not feel accomplished. When I beat that dumb blackgaol knight at the beginning I did not feel any accomplishment. There's a point where things become so frustrating that overcoming the challenge no longer feels good. There are sections of this DLC I never want to play again. And that's disappointing.

[SolusiRadikal]

Rellana is all about watching her dancing step, quick-quick-slow or quick-slow-slow, sometimes dashing-quick-quick-slow or other way around

Same things happened on mesmer, but this guy has less defense than Rellana which make it easier for you to drop nuke and end the fight as fast as possible.

[Zoid13]

when elden ring first dropped in 2022 i was surprised that the combat system didnt have more influence from sekiro.
sekiro imo has the most fun combat system for fast back and forth exchanges with tonnes of parrys.

[Lord Fancy Pants]

The game is particularly clunky if you have played the Nioh games, which are best-in-class for combat.

[CrucibleOfHate]

Yeah, Nioh has the best combat mechanics of a souls-like, but it also *doesn't* have pvp that's at all worth playing, and Nioh 2 doesn't have PvP at all, so there isn't much point in how high the skill ceiling gets.

...OP's on some ♥♥♥♥ tho, that's whack

[epreber0809]

Shhhh. Don't criticize the game or you might get told to git gud by some meathead with nothing better to add to the conversation.

[SolusiRadikal]

Originally posted by Lord Fancy Pants:

The game is particularly clunky if you have played the Nioh games, which are best-in-class for combat.

Best in class according to you only, since the game itself want player to be ultra agresive unlike soul series

Also please don't compare dance-dance-revolution souls a.k.a sekiro to Elden Ring since both has very different core gameplay

[ssj grumpig]

Originally posted by Lord Fancy Pants:

The game is particularly clunky if you have played the Nioh games, which are best-in-class for combat.

Warning to any reading: learning to play Nioh 2 on its own terms will likely ruin all other third person ARPG combat systems for you, it's that good

[❤️ニューハーフ]

Originally posted by SolusiRadikal:

Rellana is all about watching her dancing step, quick-quick-slow or quick-slow-slow, sometimes dashing-quick-quick-slow or other way around

Same things happened on mesmer, but this guy has less defense than Rellana which make it easier for you to drop nuke and end the fight as fast as possible.

would be nice if both did not have rng combos, rellana can do either 2 swings with a follow up or not and messmer .... well 2-3 hit combo which he instantly follows up with 5 range spear attacks (which is actually separate combo aswell)

garbage design, waiting game with rng when you can press R1 once

[Beans]

Eh, you can read Rellana a lot easier than Mesmer.. I couldn't even see him half the time I was fighting him. His attacks cover the entire arena and the room is just too small and the camera is panned in too tight.

Also Sekiro definitely plays like a FromSoft game.

[Werfer]

Nuh uh

[CastielArch]

Started using a shield and guard counters/parry, DLC is actualy a blast to fight, the enemies are just made to demolish people relying only on rolling (and spamming R1 with fast weapons).

[Kulin]

Originally posted by CastielArch:

Started using a shield and guard counters/parry, DLC is actualy a blast to fight, the enemies are just made to demolish people relying only on rolling (and spamming R1 with fast weapons).

Shield is and always was easy mode. Just like using the mimic. That's exactly why i used both on the final boss. I just wanted it to be over at this point and was not interested anymore in learning this crazy attack patterns for hours.