Scadutree Fragments - lazy?

[AtLastBossCarryMe]

I'm a fan of all Souls games. I've 'git gud' and beat every boss in every FromSoft game on PC and console. So this isn't a whine about DLC difficulty or anything it's just a general question on FromSoft's design choice.

In every other FS game, there's a feeling of accomplishment in your character's progression as you level up, find better gear or just git gud.

I'm shocked that in this DLC , you can 'git gud' by just picking up rocks.

This feels like an incredible copout and ultra lazy design choice.

I can't understand how with so many intricate other mechanics and design choices over the catalogue of FS games, they came up with this one?

Pick up a rock, get a flat , unseen, un-exciting buff. It really de-emphasizes the joy of finding a clutch piece of gear/spell or getting a stat upgrade to me.

PS: I know you can choose to ignore using them - I think that's cool, but for those players still interested in feeling like they are progressing their character or need to get stronger - tis' odd that so much emphasis is put on collecting a universal buffing mechanic with no downside, no stat requirements, no thought required to use , nothing.

Thoughts?

[Saph]

They're the exact same principle as gold seeds and sacred tears. If you don't like them then I guess you hate upgrading the flask too. I love exploring personally.

[SeriousBacon]

If you're trying to not let the player over-level all your fights this is probably one of the best way of doing it, sort of an in between from conventional souls leveling and Sekiro. Honestly, I like it a lot more because of this, made it feel like I was doing fights at their intended difficulty.

Realistically, they needed a way to let you have actual progression in the dlc that wouldn't destroy the balance of the base game and you can't do that if you stick with the base leveling system.

Personally, it made exploration feel more rewarding beyond just finding new places, which I feel was another reason for it. The game is open world, they didn't make this huge ass expansion so we would high-tail it like it's a boss rush.

[Efreet]

it's basically a design to accommodate the hardcore players at level 700 so they can be two shotted too...
I think it's truly an absurd design but that's what they did.
Would have made more sense to allow to upgrade armors but they went power creep route.
Maybe they thought it would be more elegant?
Still the dlc is truly strange... you're basically required to be 150-200 to have some semblance of balance on top of the new system but most rewards are trash low level materials.

[Eric]

I agree, its lazy and uninspiring game design. It turned a great RPG into a meh action adventure.

[True Lord BachusPL The Great]

You can just "git gud" in any Souls game by leving up and taking estus fragments.
Scadutree fragments incentivize world exploration and, if not for them, all bosses would have the same difficulty since there is no progression.
Conclusion: you are wrong.

[vamirez]

Pick up weapons, abilities, spells, upgrade items and flask uses from ground - lazy?

[Eric]

Origineel geplaatst door True Lord BachusPL The Great:

You can just "git gud" in any Souls game by leving up and taking estus fragments.
Scadutree fragments incentivize world exploration and, if not for them, all bosses would have the same difficulty since there is no progression.
Conclusion: you are wrong.

God forbid they would encourage exploration with an engaging world. Like.... let me think... the fkn base game? They know how to do that very well without adding artificial checkpoint ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Scraps]

Interesting how people are now starting to complain about Sekiro's prayer beads; it's a very identical system.

Shame people can't completely decimate the DLC with a RL713 character, I guess.

[Taddy Mason]

Origineel geplaatst door Saph:

They're the exact same principle as gold seeds and sacred tears. If you don't like them then I guess you hate upgrading the flask too. I love exploring personally. :2016bee:

they're not, though. those are one of several methods of getting stronger, that themselves offers a bit of variety. you can choose to adjust how many of what type of flask you want for example. with the scadutree fragments, it's just a permanent boost to your character's damage output and negation regardless of what build they have or playstyle they're going for. a mage potentially needing more cerulean flasks than a nonmagic user for example. doesn't matter what your build is or how you play the game with scadutree fragments. just a one and done permanent upgrade to your character overall. a perfect jack of all trades upgrade. no downside potential at all. no room for variation either.

[True Lord BachusPL The Great]

Origineel geplaatst door Eric:

Origineel geplaatst door True Lord BachusPL The Great:

You can just "git gud" in any Souls game by leving up and taking estus fragments.
Scadutree fragments incentivize world exploration and, if not for them, all bosses would have the same difficulty since there is no progression.
Conclusion: you are wrong.

God forbid they would encourage exploration with an engaging world. Like.... let me think... the fkn base game? They know how to do that very well without adding artificial checkpoint ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

The original game encouraged exploration with estus fragments, DLC encourages with Scadutree fragments. There is zero difference between these things.

[paincanbefun]

Origineel geplaatst door Saph:

They're the exact same principle as gold seeds and sacred tears. If you don't like them then I guess you hate upgrading the flask too. I love exploring personally. :2016bee:

yeah, i really don't get the lazy thing. if they didn't flatten the experience across levels, then a lot of people would have had to level up a new toon instead of being able to jump right in

the design problem was a wide range of player levels and the solution was discrete scaling. solving a problem elegantly is the definition of good design

[Eric]

Origineel geplaatst door Anarchy:

Interesting how people are now starting to complain about Sekiro's prayer beads; it's a very identical system.

Shame people can't completely decimate the DLC with a RL713 character, I guess.

If i want to play Sekiro, i pick up sekiro, i bought Elden Ring however.

[Pacino]

I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand it heavily encourages exploration and provides a meaningful reward. There's less pressure to just farm levels. But the drawback is that when I'm reaching bosses I'm having put them on the back burner until I can find more shards. It almost feels like I'm softlocked out of being able to win on arrival. It also means I'm second guessing if the boss really is as hard as it seems or if I just haven't got enough shards yet.

Having said that there are new weapons and spells to play around with and I'm pretty sure my frostbite build isn't fit for purpose anymore. So maybe more experimentation on my part is required.

[True Lord BachusPL The Great]

Origineel geplaatst door Eric:

Origineel geplaatst door Anarchy:

Interesting how people are now starting to complain about Sekiro's prayer beads; it's a very identical system.

Shame people can't completely decimate the DLC with a RL713 character, I guess.

If i want to play Sekiro, i pick up sekiro, i bought Elden Ring however.

How else would you incentivize world exploration and make progression?

[Eric]

Origineel geplaatst door True Lord BachusPL The Great:

Origineel geplaatst door Eric:

God forbid they would encourage exploration with an engaging world. Like.... let me think... the fkn base game? They know how to do that very well without adding artificial checkpoint ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

The original game encouraged exploration with estus fragments, DLC encourages with Scadutree fragments. There is zero difference between these things.

There is a large difference between those. Which you yourself point out here, scadutree is much more comparable to Estus then leveling. Because you can build something, the core idea of an RPG.

Origineel geplaatst door True Lord BachusPL The Great:

Origineel geplaatst door Eric:

If i want to play Sekiro, i pick up sekiro, i bought Elden Ring however.

How else would you incentivize world exploration and make progression?

Switching the Estus system for example, make it include those boosts. They scadutree stuff is just boring, you couldve incorporated that into any number of things.