Needle Knight Leda fight is pure garbage

[Dracula Flow]

Infinite poise and stun lock NPCS and then an NPC with tracking spells that one shot you, this is peak artificial difficulty. Can't wait for Miyazaki's dream game where the enemy just one shots you by looking at you. What a joke.

[SeeDee]

Originally posted by Mistarpotato:

Infinite poise and stun lock NPCS and then an NPC with tracking spells that one shot you, this is peak artificial difficulty. Can't wait for Miyazaki's dream game where the enemy just one shots you by looking at you. What a joke.

I never summon ever but I felt like I had to summon for Leda's fight. Most bosses you can learn their move-sets and timings, theoretically making each attempt an improvement over the last as you get familiar.

There is nothing to be learnt from the Leda fight however. They don't have attack patterns or timings, and they just bum rush you non-stop giving you no breathing room. The Leda fight honestly feels like bashing your head against a wall until eventually by some miracle, the stars align and you get good RNG and get the win.

I think the fight would be a lot better if A. Moore the fat autist didn't spam those ♥♥♥♥♥♥ pots from out of vision that instantly proc scarlet rot in a radius the size of a small house, and B. Dane didn't constantly chase you down giving you no time to heal, flame cleanse me, etc.

I swapped my ash of wars around so many times, tried using various aromatics, different physick tears, shields, and incantations, and eventually just said ♥♥♥♥ it and summoned. I beat it first try after summoning.

[Key]

Originally posted by Lateralus:

Originally posted by Key:

Okay but with how ridiculously obscure FS quests are, it's a fair complaint, you can f*ck up half of them by either exploring or trying to do the right thing.

Hell Moore legit joins the fight against you if you tell him to keep going instead of being sad forever.

I disagree, they've always been like that and besides, the NPC quests in the expansions were insanely easy to track and do. I didn't have to look anything up once.

Except the other games weren't open world, and even in the base game it's almost impossible to fail quests unless you go out of your way to kill the quest NPCs, only exceptions being Seluvis and Goldmask. Hell, you can even skip steps on most of them and the quests will just keep progressing.

In the DLC you can straight up fail two quests by walking in a boss room while exploring. having this in a DLC that is entirely built around exploring every nook and cranny to find fragments this is just bad design, and there's no excuse for it.

Also the fact that you got Moore's answer right is absurd to me, considering you straight up have to be mean to him for no reason to not have him join Leda.

Also, even if it were true, which it's not, "they were always like that" isn't an excuse, basically every single system has been changed from DeS to ER, from healing, to infusion, to poise, to durability, to armor upgrading, to limited casting, to dual wielding and so on.

[Zoid13]

:( i thought it was an awesome fight. one of my faves in the entire game. having a 4v4 royale with all the npc's was fantastic imo. was far better than what followed :P

Originally posted by Key:

you can f*ck up half of them by either exploring or trying to do the right thing.

the explore point with the rune break actually doesn't break any of the quests at all. you can still complete them all fine.
i hit that explore point in my first play through very early on it just skips a few bits. in fact i didn't really do all the quests until i was up to burning the tree (which i put on hold to explore the rest of the map first as like the base game i assumed it was some kind of world changing event) and everything still worked fine.
much like missing some of the confrontations in the black keep also doesn't break any of the quests it just skips the fights and you in turn miss an item or 2. (which i also did because i didnt see the runes on the floor) (leda will go for ansbach if you miss the hornsent fight)

and in the end i still got to summon ansback and tholl for the arena battle.

exploring doesn't break things. your choices however can have different consequences for the final battles.

[Key]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

:( i thought it was an awesome fight. one of my faves in the entire game. having a 4v4 royale with all the npc's was fantastic imo. was far better than what followed :P

Originally posted by Key:

you can f*ck up half of them by either exploring or trying to do the right thing.

the explore point with the rune break actually doesn't break any of the quests at all. you can still complete them all fine.

I'm talking about entering Messmer's room. Not even killing Messmer, just entering the room.

[Zoid13]

Originally posted by Key:

Originally posted by Zoid13:

:( i thought it was an awesome fight. one of my faves in the entire game. having a 4v4 royale with all the npc's was fantastic imo. was far better than what followed :P


the explore point with the rune break actually doesn't break any of the quests at all. you can still complete them all fine.

I'm talking about entering Messmer's room.

yes and that doesn't break anything either. i killed Mesmer and got all through the ruins to the tree before i did the quests.
if you enter his room you 'skip' the leda / hornsent fight and shell automatically go after ansbach when you talk to her again.
the quests continue as is you jsut don't get the talisam / quickslash

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Mistarpotato:

Originally posted by Nakaris:

First have you ever upgraded any of the scadu tree things ?
maybe your using a ronald weasly ginger build ?

cant say i havnt entcouterd any problems with this encounter even without using super dupa cheese tenthousand buffs bevor fight build. Only clown bosses are in my eyes mira with some of his moves in short order in phase 2, partwise the endboss and one move of mr pain train. the rest is mostly fine.

My brother in Souls, I'm +19, literally 1 away. On top of that I was using Golden Vow and Black Flame's Protection. I know it hurts to admit the truth but the Scadutree Fragments is not a magic fix for some enemies still being overtuned. Even with Gaius' armor I'd still get 2 shot by that spell. There are parts where there was no tuning at all whether you want to admit it or not.

Have you tried elemental resists to see what damage type it is? Perhaps it is not physical considering it appears to be a spell and most spells are not physical?

Can you use the wormhole spell to suck it up or possibly spell parry it?

Or simply stunlock and instagib him when he spawns as a priority?

Just some ideas. I haven't tested the dmg type, myself, since I'm still just a bit before that fight and haven't really played much lately so that is the limit of what I can suggest.

[Mister Sir]

I like the whole "level scooby doo tree!" arguments, meanwhile I am also at 19 and I know exactly the spells you are talking about cause they do indeed eat 75% of of 55 vigor hp bar.

Love the game, beat the game, damage and attack spam by some enemies is still overtuned. I do not see why the ♥♥♥♥ it should ever be a thing where you die in 2 hits to anything. I legit had easier time figuring out how to right messmer than his dumb ass fire knights for example and no, I am not implying messmer is easier than a single fire knight, I am stating that with fire knights I have to face tank their infinite spam and kill them faster than kill me while with messmer there are actual openings. Then you got fights like leda, who just throws one disc at you and eats most of your HP... like why? Why is this a thing?

[Key]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

Originally posted by Key:

I'm talking about entering Messmer's room.

the quests continue as is you jsut don't get the talisam / quickslash

That's pretty much the entire point of doing Hornsent's quest, it's like saying that not giving Seluvis the Amber shard doesn't get you the Scorpion talisman, yes that's the point of even doing the questline to begin with.

[Zoid13]

Originally posted by Key:

Originally posted by Zoid13:

the quests continue as is you jsut don't get the talisam / quickslash

That's pretty much the entire point of doing Hornsent's quest

just because its skip-able doesn't mean anything broke. 2 very different things specially when the OP is talking about the Arena Battle at the end of the game and skipping confrontations in the black keep / exploring has zero baring on whos there to summon or not.

as for quickslash. the trade off is that you cant summon him. and for a lot of people that actually use / need summons to kill bosses that's bigger than getting quickslash.
(and no i dont use summons. ive nearly completed a 0 scadu bow only run atm. in the last area lol)

the whole point is that its GREAT quest design. its not the devs fault that some people need to get everything on 1 playthrough by looking up everything on the internet beforehand. if you just played without looking up guides you wouldn't even know that something was skipped or you didn't get a particular skill because it all still works. that's GOOD design and creates longevity for replaying it.

people that say you need guides for fromsoft games are the same people that use guides for everything else because they cant get over the mental block of potentially missing something. IMO they ruin good game design for themselves because of it.

[Paz]

Originally posted by Key:

Originally posted by Lateralus:

I disagree, they've always been like that and besides, the NPC quests in the expansions were insanely easy to track and do. I didn't have to look anything up once.

Except the other games weren't open world, and even in the base game it's almost impossible to fail quests unless you go out of your way to kill the quest NPCs, only exceptions being Seluvis and Goldmask. Hell, you can even skip steps on most of them and the quests will just keep progressing.

In the DLC you can straight up fail two quests by walking in a boss room while exploring. having this in a DLC that is entirely built around exploring every nook and cranny to find fragments this is just bad design, and there's no excuse for it.

Also the fact that you got Moore's answer right is absurd to me, considering you straight up have to be mean to him for no reason to not have him join Leda.

Also, even if it were true, which it's not, "they were always like that" isn't an excuse, basically every single system has been changed from DeS to ER, from healing, to infusion, to poise, to durability, to armor upgrading, to limited casting, to dual wielding and so on.

Once again, no you're just wrong Im sorry to say. Its not bad design at all. Just cause you don't understand it dose not mean other people do not. The quest design in the DLC is perfectly fine and there is even room for error as a few people have already pointed out to you. Also why is the idea that someone did something you didn't so absurd to you? Thatsa tad bit narcissistic

[Sean Maxhell]

Originally posted by Mistarpotato:

Infinite poise and stun lock NPCS and then an NPC with tracking spells that one shot you, this is peak artificial difficulty. Can't wait for Miyazaki's dream game where the enemy just one shots you by looking at you. What a joke.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3290632933

[Key]

Originally posted by Lateralus:

Originally posted by Key:

Except the other games weren't open world, and even in the base game it's almost impossible to fail quests unless you go out of your way to kill the quest NPCs, only exceptions being Seluvis and Goldmask. Hell, you can even skip steps on most of them and the quests will just keep progressing.

In the DLC you can straight up fail two quests by walking in a boss room while exploring. having this in a DLC that is entirely built around exploring every nook and cranny to find fragments this is just bad design, and there's no excuse for it.

Also the fact that you got Moore's answer right is absurd to me, considering you straight up have to be mean to him for no reason to not have him join Leda.

Also, even if it were true, which it's not, "they were always like that" isn't an excuse, basically every single system has been changed from DeS to ER, from healing, to infusion, to poise, to durability, to armor upgrading, to limited casting, to dual wielding and so on.

Once again, no you're just wrong Im sorry to say. Its not bad design at all. Just cause you don't understand it dose not mean other people do not.

Yeah cause it's such a difficult concept that very few people would ever understand it. I see, you're one of those people that thinks they're smarter than the people they disagree with.

Ironically, it's usually a sign of the opposite scenario, but I digress.

Originally posted by Lateralus:

Also why is the idea that someone did something you didn't so absurd to you? Thatsa tad bit narcissistic

And second insult, what in all of the f*cks does narcissism even have to do with anything.

It's a strange option to pick unprompted, because telling someone you just met to "just be sad forever" when they're struggling is a d*ck move, and it's unlikely to be the first option one would pick, as acting like a d*ck towards somebody is not likely to making them like you.

...you know, thinking of it, you're right, it's unsurprising that you would pick that option by default.

[⛧Vinn⛧]

How much hp does OP have?

[rokkijani]

Sacred Relic Sword weapon skill is awesome here. Mimic helps too if you are suffering.

[The Debauchery]

I'm curious whether Madness / Death Blight would work in that fight.
If there is ANY fight in the entirety of the PvE content of the game where Madness / Death Blight builds might actually work.... I'd put my bets on that being it.

I'd also bet they don't work because Death Blight and Madness are just arbitrarily invalid options for PvE. No reason. I don't know why the game even lets us use weapons and spells that cause those statuses if they're literally useless for anything and everything.