Fromsoftware's boss design has fallen off

[GrandMasterBlyat]

One-shot attacks and attack combo chaining does not equal hard. It's annoying. Having a huge ass dragon spamming AOE attacks and flying while you frantically try to target your camera on it since you can't lock on their legs isn't hard. Its annoying.

As someone who has played all DS games multiple times, it is insane how more unfair the bosses in this game feels compared. In DS most bosses did their attacks and gave you some time to heal, or attack in turn. In this game a boss can chain attack combos multiple times while you beg for some time to heal or attack. If you are real unlucky you can spend 30 seconds to a minute before getting your first hit in.

It is obvious they want you to summon this game. As someone who don't have anything against people who use summons, but strongly avoids using them myself because i want a worthy challenge, i feel neglected. There is nothing "worthy" or "fair" about these bosses. They were not designed for people like me and many others.

I really hope they don't go this route on their next games as FS is my favorite game dev of all time and their games has really entertained me for many, many years.

[Foxrun]

Isn’t the one shot move from the final boss heavily based on lore around the final boss? It’s a one hit kill if it takes your heart.

[Battlewrench]

Although I find it annoying I think they lay it on thick that they want you to use everything in your arsenal. Items for resistance, summons, spells, and etc. I think that's why there are so many more cookbooks in this dlc too. The bosses become easier with all items used. Yeah though all the bosses are big bosses that attack fast and constant.

[Paott]

Fromsoft peaked with Gael, we're never getting a fight like him again.
Also Pontiff > Rellana

[Key]

Truth is I don't like using summons, it just breaks the flow of combat for me to have the boss constantly switch aggro between me and the summon.

It removes that duel aspect that FromSoftware Boss Fight usually have. I get it, they are a mechanic and the game is designed around using them, but to me it just feels like a system stapled onto an already existing system that was perfected in DS3.

Like, Code Vein had a similar system and everyone called it a stupid idea at the time, I don't get why all of a sudden it's good here.

[Mac]

just facts, lazy boss design with an summons as an excuse to balance it out

[GrandMasterBlyat]

Originally posted by Wagwan delilah:

just facts, lazy boss design with an summons as an excuse to balance it out

That's a great way of putting it

[Talilover]

Fromsoft is stuck in a viscious loop of trying to one up themselves and having an incredibly annoying fanbase that defends anything they release.

It's gotten to the point where bosses feel like some kid nobody likes making up a bunch of bs rules when they play fight with their friends "Ummm no that hit didn't count because I heal, and you actually take damage because I have big AOES with everything I do" that type of stuff.

[Stoners Knight]

Skill issue. Only boss that took double digit attempt so far was messmer. People are not using the proper build. This dlc was made for a challenge. It is totally optional from the base game. Requiring heavy exploration and combat skills to even unlock.

Fundamentals and mechanics available at the 1.0 launch and beyond must be mastered to survive, let alone progress.

[Valthejean]

This makes me think of Blizzard, to be honest. Blizzard became obsessed with the idea that players were mastering their games, so they had to keep upping the raids to make it "challenging." Which then resulted in this endless spiral of difficulty as addons trivialized entire mechanics, so Blizzard would design bosses with the addons in mind.

Fromsoft is now designing their bosses to be less of a fun ordeal and spectacle, and more of a painful slog because annoying people complained that Elden Ring was "easy."

[AILAD]

Yep, boss design went downhill in Elden Ring. Gone are the days of DS3 and Sekiro's meticulously crafted bosses that are perfectly balanced around your character's base kit.

Now it's just endless combos + AOE spam + input reads. It's so lazy and cheap. The only reason they can get away with it is because they give you so many broken easy mode tools that trivialize any fight like mimic tear.

I really hope they ditch this design philosophy in their next games and go back to the way they made bosses before elden ring.

[Armando Broncas]

Originally posted by Valthejean:

This makes me think of Blizzard, to be honest. Blizzard became obsessed with the idea that players were mastering their games, so they had to keep upping the raids to make it "challenging." Which then resulted in this endless spiral of difficulty as addons trivialized entire mechanics, so Blizzard would design bosses with the addons in mind.

Fromsoft is now designing their bosses to be less of a fun ordeal and spectacle, and more of a painful slog because annoying people complained that Elden Ring was "easy."

Yeah this is exactly what is happening.

[ShivaX]

Originally posted by Battlewrench:

Although I find it annoying I think they lay it on thick that they want you to use everything in your arsenal. Items for resistance, summons, spells, and etc. I think that's why there are so many more cookbooks in this dlc too. The bosses become easier with all items used. Yeah though all the bosses are big bosses that attack fast and constant.

Problem is any consumables can basically only be used before you walk through the fog wall on most bosses because of the endless aggression and no respite.

You often can't drink a flask, much less use a consumable. And the fights are so long because of all the "watch the boss do their endless combo before you get a single hit in" that there is no way you're going to spend one of those rare moments to get a defense bonus or whatever.

I'm sure there is some way to abuse Hefty Pots or something, but the animation for that is so long I can't imagine it on most fights. You can't even swing big weapons anymore. It's all jump attacks because actually swinging a colossal weapon is too slow for the boss designs.

[BKo]

Originally posted by Stoners Knight:

Skill issue. Only boss that took double digit attempt so far was messmer. People are not using the proper build. This dlc was made for a challenge. It is totally optional from the base game. Requiring heavy exploration and combat skills to even unlock.

Fundamentals and mechanics available at the 1.0 launch and beyond must be mastered to survive, let alone progress.

Get to the final boss. Messmer is fun and easy with all of his openings. Probably the best boss in all of ER, I would love to fight him again but they still refuse to give us refights.

Anyone who seriously thinks this final boss is good has irreparable brain damage, they jumped the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shark this time.

[Foxrun]

Originally posted by BKo:

Originally posted by Stoners Knight:

Skill issue. Only boss that took double digit attempt so far was messmer. People are not using the proper build. This dlc was made for a challenge. It is totally optional from the base game. Requiring heavy exploration and combat skills to even unlock.

Fundamentals and mechanics available at the 1.0 launch and beyond must be mastered to survive, let alone progress.

Get to the final boss. Messmer is fun and easy with all of his openings. Probably the best boss in all of ER, I would love to fight him again but they still refuse to give us refights.

Anyone who seriously thinks this final boss is good has irreparable brain damage, they jumped the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shark this time.

I like it but I’m a sicko. I’ll keep trying until I get it like I did with Isshin.

[GrandMasterBlyat]

Originally posted by Stoners Knight:

Skill issue. Only boss that took double digit attempt so far was messmer. People are not using the proper build. This dlc was made for a challenge. It is totally optional from the base game. Requiring heavy exploration and combat skills to even unlock.

Fundamentals and mechanics available at the 1.0 launch and beyond must be mastered to survive, let alone progress.

Proper build doesn't help when you are stuck in a 10 attack chain and literally beg for a room to breathe so you can get an attack in or heal. As i said, they want you to have a summon to split aggro, which is the wrong way of doing it.