Not enough attributes to comfortably play Faith before lvl60+ ?

[Pimpin Pippin]

I recently started elden ring (pvE only) as wretch with the intention of doing a pure caster, first wanted to try faith/incantations & later respec into some glintstones.
I know its far from optimal but i get really bored of doing just melee without lots of magic.

Going as a pure caster (mind+faith, almost naked & avoiding melee) worked okay-ish but getting touched in melee pretty much meant death which got a bit tedious after about 45 levels.

So i tried switching to a more sane attribute spread that also includes vigor for health and endurance for medium/heavy armor+shield but then realized my Mind and Faith got too low.
So low that my Cerulean flasks restore more FP than i have, and my spells barely do enough damage to be called a caster.

Using an upgraded Faith weapon/whetstone/art/affinity was nice but with the attributes spread so thinly it was all too weak.
I tried equipping talismans that improve equipment load to shift some attributes but its just not enough.

I notice on character guides/builds that when you are lvl 100++ you got plenty of attributes to spare on these secondary attributes - but before that you are just too starved to spread between Vigor/Endurance/Mind/Faith ?

For the sake of comparison & testing i switched to a standard Strength character (strength+vigor+endurance) in heavy armor and a 2handed weapon which absolutely obliterated whatever was in front of me and the weapon was only a measly +3.

[Detective Costeau]

For an early game Faith build I usually just start with a Prophet, put 1 point into strength to use one of the kite shields, and put the rest into a mix of Faith, Endurance, Mind, and Vigor.

Combine with a reasonably upgraded Sacred weapon (or Flame Art if you're willing to risk a suicide run into Redmane Castle to get the whetblade), and I never found I was struggling to do damage with melee or spells.

Sure, you'll have less FP than a pure caster since you have to invest more into Vigor and Endurance so your mind will be lower, but if you're killing a bunch of things with melee, you need less FP for spells anyway. Sure, you'll 'waste' some points from blue flasks overfilling your FP bar, but that hardly matters in my experience.

[Millo]

(sorry for my english)
Strength build are fast to grow theyr damage, you just need strength and a upgraded weapon.

Caster build need a little bit more time.

At first, even if you want to be a caster, you need vigor. Go to 30 i'd say.
Because even if you go for 80 Int or faith at the start, without a good upgraded staff/seal, you will not see much of a difference in your damages.

Also, Build who focus on 1 stat are far more ez to build especially for beginners.
I'll advise you to go only Faith or only Intel. Then, when you reach 80 in one of them, try to go fo the other one, but even there, it gonna take time. Cause you need your other stats.
What i advise you with the Wretch as starter class (and let's imagine you go Faith, if you want to go Intel, just swap the two) is :

At lvl 50 :
Vigor 30 (+20)
Mind 20 (+10)
Endurance 20 (+10)
strength 10 (more if you need a certain weapon)
Dexterity 10 (more if you need a certain weapon)
inteligence 10
Faith 19 (+9)
Arcane 10
-----------------
At lvl 100 :
Vigor 40 (+10)
Mind 30 (+10)
Endurance 30 (+10)
strength 10
Dexterity 10
inteligence 10
Faith 39 (+20)
Arcane 10
-----------------
At lvl 150 :
Vigor 50 (+10)
Mind 30
Endurance 30
strength 10
Dexterity 10
inteligence 10
Faith 79 (+40)
Arcane 10
-----------------
At lvl 200 (if you reach it before the end of the game) : 39 points left for Str or Dex
Vigor 50
Mind 30
Endurance 40 (+10)
strength 10
Dexterity 10
inteligence 10
Faith 80 +(1)
Arcane 10

You do you of course, you do not have to striclty follow that, it is just for advices. Dont forget that you'll need point in Str or Dex at some point, just to carry some weapons if you want one. Do not put more than neccessary if you want to be a caster only, wait to reach for 80 in your primary casting stat before putting point in your primary hitting stat.

My last point, maybe the wretch is not the best class to start with if you want a only caster build. The confessor, or better yet, the prophet, will do much better because they got the sat you need from the begining. Not that the wretch is a bad choice of course.

[Kalamir]

While STR has the advantage of both Offence & Defence thanks to having Higher Hard physical Def, the secret to any good play through is finding a weapon your comfortable whit.

Just because your a caster does not mean you can neglect your weapon. I find my issues is staggering mobs, & to stagger mobs you need to hit them fast or hard. Fist, Claws, double blade Sword, 2 Straight, 2 Curved. These will hit fast. Great Swords, Hammers, Flails, Halberds, Scythes. These have Low-ish requirements and will stagger Knight Class mobs.

So find a Weapon Class you like. You only need 2/3 STR to 2hand a STR-ish weapon. Like 12 STR to use a Great Scythe since it's REQ STR is 17. Meet the other Requirements & go to town to anyone who thinks your Hood/Pointy Hat looks funny.

[B O R G]

u can get coded sword it scales only in faith

[Kalamir]

I should also add that for a large part of the Game, Armour, even heavy armour, barely does anything to reduce DMG. Dont' get me wrong, Armour does it job eventually & Poise is always useful. But for a large Chunk of the Game, Hard Defence is what will impact the DMG you take. DMG is reduce by "Hard Defence", then the Rest by "Soft Defence"

In your Status Screen, you see two set of numbers, my current 118 Arcanist has
>Physical Defence of 140 / 28,770
Aka, every Punch I take is reduce by 140 then what is left over is reduce by 28.770%

-Hard Defence is increased by increasing any stat, Physical Hard Defence increases more when STR is raised.

-Soft Defence is raised by Armour, Talismans & Buffs. It is a Absolute amount, meaning that it appear more difficult to increase. But in Actuality every little %+ far more valuable.
10% is barely noticable, 15% a bit, but 20% you notice it a lot, 25%+ is a big difference.
at 33% your taking Big hits liked you have 50% more HP.

--> In laymen terms, Your overall Stats impact your Defence more then the Armour you wear until your past the Capital. Until Then, armour is mostly for Poise.

[lindyhop]

Indeed pure FTH caster is pretty underwhelming at the start.

It's completely different than INT caster where you can get OP early with Meteoric Staff and Rock Sling, and even without that, the default setup of Pebbles and Astrologer Staff can easily carry you through the whole Limgrave.

As FTH user, your best bet is to stick to Sacred Blade for a while, until you get to Liurnia where you can get Lightning Spear and other useful incantations. Many of the coolest incantations are only available late in the game, unfortunately.

Another option, if you can time it right, dragon breaths can deal stupid amount of damage, especially Rotten Breath.

[DELAMAIN]

Vigor 40 (first cap) -> 60 ( hardcap )
Faith 60 ( first cap for spell damage ) -> 80 ( hard cap for incantations)
rest put to whatever you want...if pure caster then mind/end
VIGOR>FAITH>END=MIND
and yes no matter what build you have 60 VIGOR is must
you can survive low mind / end in PVE
NO NEED TO TOUCH the mind/end untill you get 40 Vigor and 60 Faith

[DELAMAIN]

making it simple lvl up faith to 27 for Godslayer seal then pop Vig to 40. then faith to 60. then get some mind and end if you feel need

[Kalamir]

Originally posted by DELAMAIN:

making it simple lvl up faith to 27 for Godslayer seal then pop Vig to 40. then faith to 60. then get some mind and end if you feel need

I do agree whit Delamain here, I'll just add to meet the minimum stats to wield your weapon of choice & the Spells you absolutely need for what your running. Endurance can be a dump stat until later. Just wear something, even Commoners Cloths.

[surreptitious]

Well
If you want to go faith ...
you cant use incantations off the start..
Consider ....
Using short swords ... you can buy one and farm one in patches cave .
The ash of war for the Golden Arc... forget the name .... is a faith scaling ash of war that adds faith damage buff to the weapons also .... short swords require no stat investment

Using ErdSteel Daggers.. you gotta be pro but ... they scale physical from faith .

Getting the faith claws from the Roundtable area .. pure faith requirement scales off faith only .. attack pierces shields ... great weapon ...

When you get to capital.. coded sword ... scales off faith ... goes through shields...

at lvl 60 .. you can have ... 60 faith and 20 vigor .which is enough to summon a clone ...

your weapons weigh nothing so you can wear better armour ..
your weapons weigh nothing so you can wear nothing and use blue dancer talisman .

on faith builds you need to buff yourself to get full value.

Also consider doing fire and ice build ... flame scales from faith ...

consider blue dancer + i dunno 20% damage
and Self buff from golden order incant + 15% damage
+ faith buff on weapon after casting the golden arc , + 10-15 % damage .
flame grant me strength + 10% damage

Then go hit something ...

[lindyhop]

Originally posted by surreptitious:

consider blue dancer + i dunno 20% damage
and Self buff from golden order incant + 15% damage
+ faith buff on weapon after casting the golden arc , + 10-15 % damage .
flame grant me strength + 10% damage

Then go hit something ...

Blue Dancer Charm will only buff physical damage though, it does nothing for pure caster.

Such a shame, I know. Mage should gain something from wearing no armor.

[Blunette]

Consider the Physick for boosting, be it plain Faith or elemental powerups. Just because you're running Faith doesn't mean you can't get yourself a nice little side-arm that fits your stats. Bare minimum stats to hold something for when you run out of FP/conserve it and then don't need to touch Dex/Strength again. Coded weapons basically have no requirements but Faith itself and you can get the first one as soon as you hit Roundtable Hold by jumping over the railing (though Alberich will want to cut you). There's also the fact that Catch Flame by itself will carry you against bosses until you start hitting Fire Resistant ones with it's raw DPS. Also, don't forget to actually upgrade your casting equipment, the spell amp stacks up pretty quickly once you start getting that Faith scaling rolling at the caps.

[surreptitious]

Originally posted by lindyhop:

Originally posted by surreptitious:

consider blue dancer + i dunno 20% damage
and Self buff from golden order incant + 15% damage
+ faith buff on weapon after casting the golden arc , + 10-15 % damage .
flame grant me strength + 10% damage

Then go hit something ...

Blue Dancer Charm will only buff physical damage though, it does nothing for pure caster.

Such a shame, I know. Mage should gain something from wearing no armor.

not casting ...

Sacred Blade https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Ash+of+War:+Sacred+Blade
OR
Flame art
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Ash+of+War:+Flame+of+the+Redmanes
with
Cold
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Ash+of+War:+Glintblade+Phalanx

On straight swords ... or ErdSteel Daggers .. or Great Stars

switch in finger seals .. to cast incants to pre buff .. or to cast when needed ...
switch back and forth from dual wield to single wield to cast either ash of war .

One playstyle is all Faith .. with ranged Sacred Blade and heavy hits with buffed weapons ... the other is FAI/INT speed procing frostbite with flame stance break and phalanyx stance break

you can transition ....

Start with pure faith claws .... Or Faith Shortswords/Daggers/Swords
then as faith gets higher ... you can start pushing INT
when its high enough you transition to Fire and Ice .. by the end Im usually fire and ice .. with blackflame/pest threads and RotBreath for when you need it to DIE.. i try to hit 60 faith and 40 int 20 Vigor by lvl 90 when doing PVE .. works ok .. rot breath is clutch to allow smooth transition cause well its always a killer

but also in PvE dont sleep on a Faith/Int with the Faith Discus .. OMG the RANGE .. and the power with the INT/Faith Seal ... i was stunned .. boomerang of death

[Marmarmar34]

Pick int or faith, specing into both is unnecessarily making things harder for you. I've been specing into faith and vigor and having a blast with it.

[lindyhop]

Originally posted by surreptitious:

not casting ...

Sacred Blade https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Ash+of+War:+Sacred+Blade
OR
Flame art
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Ash+of+War:+Flame+of+the+Redmanes
with
Cold
https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Ash+of+War:+Glintblade+Phalanx

On straight swords ... or ErdSteel Daggers .. or Great Stars

switch in finger seals .. to cast incants to pre buff .. or to cast when needed ...
switch back and forth from dual wield to single wield to cast either ash of war .

One playstyle is all Faith .. with ranged Sacred Blade and heavy hits with buffed weapons ... the other is FAI/INT speed procing frostbite with flame stance break and phalanyx stance break

you can transition ....

Start with pure faith claws .... Or Faith Shortswords/Daggers/Swords
then as faith gets higher ... you can start pushing INT
when its high enough you transition to Fire and Ice .. by the end Im usually fire and ice .. with blackflame/pest threads and RotBreath for when you need it to DIE.. i try to hit 60 faith and 40 int 20 Vigor by lvl 90 when doing PVE .. works ok .. rot breath is clutch to allow smooth transition cause well its always a killer

but also in PvE dont sleep on a Faith/Int with the Faith Discus .. OMG the RANGE .. and the power with the INT/Faith Seal ... i was stunned .. boomerang of death

I'm just saying the OP want to be a pure caster.