Let's talk about the pvp...

[/*ShadowHero*/]

It's still a lag-filed shot in the dark more than 50% of the time. If connection issues and netcode were this bad in Dark Souls 3 it would have been a PR disaster and it would have ruined the reception of that game. In this game apparently its acceptable now. Seriously I'm just messing around on a new quality build and decided to do Varres quest and pick up the bloody finger early. Of the 5 invasions you're required to do to complete his quest, 1 of them was a connection error right off the bat, 1 of them was a 3v1 that was so laggy it seemed like everyone was just guessing (i succumbed to the lag gods but put up a good fight), 1 of them was a loss because the hosts phantom was clearly overleveled, laggy af, rocking a bleed build, 1 was a win because the host got himself killed, and finally 1 was a genuine honest to god win. I have a lot of invasion experience but imagine that being someones first experience invading in a souls game. Utter tripe... and unacceptable. Something needs to be done about it, and it should be included in the upcoming DLC. Just my two cents

[echo_ML]

EAC moment

[zab]

Originally posted by echo_ML:

EAC moment

[Gearwar]

Pvp is still garbo. Its worse in ER cause it takes ages to summon a red phantom into your world, nvm the pre-requisites for it. Even the duel area sucks.

And the net code is so ♥♥♥♥, as always, that everyone just basically has some version of a r1 stab.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by /*ShadowHero*/:

It's still a lag-filed shot in the dark more than 50% of the time.

Latency has always been a problem in Dark souls games... Nothing new to talk about buddy. Take it to the chin and man up, go to your next invasion.

[nfinite.recursion]

People just need to pay up and get better internet and stop living in 3rd world countries. /s

But seriously, a ping filter would be great.

[Turt]

Originally posted by nfinite.recursion:

People just need to pay up and get better internet and stop living in 3rd world countries. /s

But seriously, a ping filter would be great.

How about actual proper region lock for once? Giving our only options as Japan and the Earth is not okay.

[psilocybe]

Originally posted by Turt:

is not okay.

Last I heard, FROM is being run from a couple overturned shipping-containers propped upright in a back-alley, someplace.

[Basarab Laiota]

You can play around the latency though. Status effects proc through rolls in high latency, for example

[Darth Invader]

What I've learned from prolly 10,000+ invasions over the years is that things are only "hunky dory" about 10% of the time.

Maybe 1 out of 10 are "normal", whether win or lose.

The other 90% are full of laggers, disconnectors, and cheaters.

Or... the worst invader of them all, the "friendly" invader...

But, I digress.

Good luck to you OP, and all your adventures.

[Kevin Ryan]

Jesus Christ the hyperbole in this thread. lol

Since 2011 Fromsoft has used what's known as a "peer to peer" system for PvP. This means that a player is chosen as a host and the other players connect to that host.

It has far less to do with players having crappy internet and far more to do with the strength of the connection you have with each other.

Now, hotheadead morons who are a little too.....uh....mentally "involved" in Elden Ring's PvP will very quickly point out that fighting games such as Tekken or Street Fighter also use a P2P system and they suffer no such lag.

This is because of two reasons

1. There are multiple kinds of P2P systems that function better or worse for the type of game you're developing

2. Fighting games only need to exchange information between two players and the interaction takes place on a "closed set." Elden Ring on the other hand is an open world action adventure RPG where a maximum of four players can interact with each other as well as the world around them and this can occur anywhere in that world. That's a lot of information that needs to travel potentially great distances and be shared across 4 participants.

So of course it's not going to perform exactly the same. Anyone who superficially compares Elden Ring's PvP to something like Tekken needs to stand up and walk themselves out of the conversation. Seriously.

Besides, there's a fair likelihood that fighting games also enjoy a matchmaking server that connects two players via P2P.

So why did Fromsoft opt for a P2P connection and why DOES it suffer from some jank?

Well as I mentioned there's a lot of information traveling between players and the host. It's important that that information gets to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.

And P2P connections, believe it or not, are generally better for this than having a dedicated server that live routes the information to the players.

PvP isn't the main draw of these games. It's not the money maker. So it makes sense that Fromsoft would not only opt for the cheapest but the most practical option that would best serve the game they developed and the experience they want it to have. You can be invaded or summoned for Co-OP ANYWHERE in the world.

This is the best system to support that kind of interaction.

If the game had a dedicated server, you'd likely see way more lag then you do now.

Also consider the fact that this P2P system allows you to continue playing without issue even if one or more players in the session disconnect which is undoubtedly another reason Fromsoft opted to go in this direction.

*******************************

The fact of the matter is you simply CANNOT take PvP in these games as seriously as you do in other games where PvP is the core experience.

Because PvP in these games is NOT the core experience.

It's fun fluff.

The jank that comes with it is usually more funny than anything --- IF you go into it with the right mindset.

And no, 90% of PvP matches are not "lag fests."

Generally speaking the system and connections are working just fine with minimal packet loss.

Sometimes of course you'll run into a string of bad matchups.

Oh well.

Laugh at the teleporting players and move on to the next invasion. It's not that serious.

[/*ShadowHero*/]

Originally posted by Darth Invader:

What I've learned from prolly 10,000+ invasions over the years is that things are only "hunky dory" about 10% of the time.

Maybe 1 out of 10 are "normal", whether win or lose.

The other 90% are full of laggers, disconnectors, and cheaters.

Or... the worst invader of them all, the "friendly" invader...

But, I digress.

Good luck to you OP, and all your adventures.

This is wholesome and insightful. I've certainly learned to put up with a lot of the jank. You're right though. A normal invasion where some friends or randos are just clearing the level and you get to throw a monkey wrench into the whole operation, is actually pretty rare comparatively speaking. Still... I do love the randomness of invasions. You can see some pretty funny **** even when the invasion isnt going your way. Cheers

[/*ShadowHero*/]

Originally posted by Kevin Ryan:

Jesus Christ the hyperbole in this thread. lol

Since 2011 Fromsoft has used what's known as a "peer to peer" system for PvP. This means that a player is chosen as a host and the other players connect to that host.

It has far less to do with players having crappy internet and far more to do with the strength of the connection you have with each other.

Now, hotheadead morons who are a little too.....uh....mentally "involved" in Elden Ring's PvP will very quickly point out that fighting games such as Tekken or Street Fighter also use a P2P system and they suffer no such lag.

This is because of two reasons

1. There are multiple kinds of P2P systems that function better or worse for the type of game you're developing

2. Fighting games only need to exchange information between two players and the interaction takes place on a "closed set." Elden Ring on the other hand is an open world action adventure RPG where a maximum of four players can interact with each other as well as the world around them and this can occur anywhere in that world. That's a lot of information that needs to travel potentially great distances and be shared across 4 participants.

So of course it's not going to perform exactly the same. Anyone who superficially compares Elden Ring's PvP to something like Tekken needs to stand up and walk themselves out of the conversation. Seriously.

Besides, there's a fair likelihood that fighting games also enjoy a matchmaking server that connects two players via P2P.

So why did Fromsoft opt for a P2P connection and why DOES it suffer from some jank?

Well as I mentioned there's a lot of information traveling between players and the host. It's important that that information gets to where it needs to go as quickly as possible.

And P2P connections, believe it or not, are generally better for this than having a dedicated server that live routes the information to the players.

PvP isn't the main draw of these games. It's not the money maker. So it makes sense that Fromsoft would not only opt for the cheapest but the most practical option that would best serve the game they developed and the experience they want it to have. You can be invaded or summoned for Co-OP ANYWHERE in the world.

This is the best system to support that kind of interaction.

If the game had a dedicated server, you'd likely see way more lag then you do now.

Also consider the fact that this P2P system allows you to continue playing without issue even if one or more players in the session disconnect which is undoubtedly another reason Fromsoft opted to go in this direction.

*******************************

The fact of the matter is you simply CANNOT take PvP in these games as seriously as you do in other games where PvP is the core experience.

Because PvP in these games is NOT the core experience.

It's fun fluff.

The jank that comes with it is usually more funny than anything --- IF you go into it with the right mindset.

And no, 90% of PvP matches are not "lag fests."

Generally speaking the system and connections are working just fine with minimal packet loss.

Sometimes of course you'll run into a string of bad matchups.

Oh well.

Laugh at the teleporting players and move on to the next invasion. It's not that serious.

Didn't expect wall of text...

Jokes aside... Yea I know it's probably the best system we are going to get. Honestly... I think my internet at my new place just sucks and that's prolly why my invasions have sucked ass today. Either way you are right. It's not that serious

[/*ShadowHero*/]

Originally posted by csand:

Originally posted by Turt:

How about actual proper region lock for once? Giving our only options as Japan and the Earth is not okay.

Ok, for the 1000000th time in the forum, this is not the case and never has been except for 2 cases:
- demon's souls ps3
- Japanese players (Japan is it's own region)

There are several regions. They work. They are not always ideal (IE, AUS lumped in with most of Asia except Japan)

If you are encountering players outside your region, it's because you or they are using VPN terminating in anither region. VPN = mega latency

There is nothing really terrible about netcode or any factor that causes this game to have more lag issues that others. You are simply saying with people far away. Any p2p game has these same issues, and any server based game will also have similar issues if you choose a server that is 400ms from you

The more you know 🏳️‍🌈✨

I just checked and I've been connected to a VPN all day... That would explain things
Crap!

[Darth Invader]

I have a theory that peer-to-peer connections allow for invasions and phantoms/sentinels to join seamlessly, without a loading screen.

Server/client connections can't do this.

If the game ran off dedicated servers, a host would have to see a loading screen for every encounter, whether it be phantom, blue sentinel, or invader.

Peer-to-peer connections eliminate all of that.

If anybody has used the old-school Napster, they would see downloads connect and re-connect seamlessly, without the need for loading screens or logins.

Just a theory.

[psilocybe]

Originally posted by csand:

dedicated would be better.

They could literally be utilizing Valve's dedicated servers, currently, right-now.

If it's dedicated server, invaders wouldn't have 20 minutes of downtime compared to the 3 minutes they have in a game.

You could pick a server, join in to bs around for a few lives, then leave when you've had your fill.

Alternatively, people that complain about random invasions can have a setting to avoid those servers.

Co-op also wouldn't have to constantly resummon , players could respawn over time like that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ mod.


/edit

Player limit could be 20, like the old gold-source dedicated servers.

Randoms running around ransacking your world map in every way.

monsters could have respawn timers.



When is project mugen set to release?