DLC bosses suck, anyone miss old souls bosses?

[P1]

I'm talking about original Dark Souls. Bosses used to be just a big guy with big hammer and straight forward combat. Now these new bosses (talking about DLC) have ganky 1 million health, they are about 10 times your size but zoom around the arena like a ping-pong ball never running out of stamina, while unleashing anime style 50 hit combos followed by 20 aerial combos followed by five AoE attacks (all that one shot you by the way).

Boss battles now are about chasing some 50 ton guy around the arena who moves at the speed of light, getting one or two hits in slowly whittling down a ganky healthbar praying you don't get hit once else you'll be one shot. I'm not even complaining about the bosses being hard, it's just tedious and unfulfilling. I remember when I first played DS1 and finally beast ornstein and smough after many tries I felt fulfilled. Now after beating these ganky cheap anime bosses I just think "thank ♥♥♥♥ that's over".

It's like these fast paced bosses were made for a fast paced action game with a player character that can move around fast and dodge. Not a a clunky dark souls character that has an asthma attack after 5 seconds of running and can barely jump.

[Veles]

I agree. While yes you can no-hit every single boss in the game and then claim "well it's easy just git gud", difficulty (or even a lack thereof) does not mean fun. It's not a simple linear graph with an optimal challenge-to-fun ratio and what's "fun" is a lot more complex than that and even highly subjective.

In the previous games, it felt like bosses fought a lot more on the player's terms (I can't think of many times a boss in the original trilogy will straight up jump away from you after an attack string to nullify any openings you might've had. I remember bosses jumping away from you often in DS2, but this was primarily to start attacks where they would immediately close the distance and give you an opening). This new design philosophy simply results in a waiting game and it would've been excellent to have Sekiro's deflection system implemented fully (unfortunately it's relegated to a physick flask in the DLC). A pretty good example of this is Morgott who, while being very easy to counter once you learn the moveset, is boiled down to a simple waiting game where you wait for him to stop doing hit and run acrobatics around the arena.

In my opinion, Elden Ring's bosses are fine... for another game. If the player had more baked-in tools for reactive counterplay, I feel most complaints about fight tedium wouldn't exist. It's not like Fromsoft can't design great boss fights (Armored Core 6 is proof that they can still do it), but they've stretched the current Souls formula to the point that it's tearing at the seams.

[Sonnenbank]

Well i agree with some parts of your post.

In the past most Dark Souls or Sekiro Boss felt somehow special/unique .
They had a specific moveset that was kinda easy to read and learn for the most part.
A moveset that you could learn within 20-30 minutes since it had good and clear visuals
and followed the rules of "logic" when it came to hitboxes , speed and recovery timings

When an enemy did a heavy attack his stamina was drained and he needed to recover.
When an enemy did a heavy attack it was safe to dodge and then counter
Also and thats why i lover Sekiro the most you could see and predict enemy movement when looking at their weapon arms.
you could position in different angles to the boss and be safe from hits
Also there was no delayed attacks.

Now with some parts of Elden Ring and with most parts of the DLC bosses its that

every single boss is just giant 5-7hit combos with AOE spam and ultra fast recovery timings ... mixed with delayed attacks, grabs and flying through the arena like on amphetamines....

Overall they are not that difficult to beat when you just level up your sadu tree blessings
and overlevel a bit.
you can just get hit a ton and still out-trade them in damage/healing.

But what i really miss is learning a moveset and then beating the bosses with style.
Like here in Sekiro.. having a fun dance where you can actually see what the opponent does and can react to it because you have clear visuals and time to react !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_WkZ6o8eNE

Elden Ring for the most part has become a mess in terms of bosses.....
after you win you have not much of an idea what the boss actually did because he just spazzed out with 1000attacks and aoe and lighting and fire and endless combos
and at one point you outhealed/outdamaged him without really knowing what actually happend

[BKo]

Messmer was the only fun boss. Actually had openings, even openings during his strings, even though he was still powerful and flashy. Pretty much every other boss was an annoying chore with either jank hitboxes, bad camera angles, hardly any openings for a slow weapon, etc.

[mugzy]

Elden Ring's worst boss is now its narrow-minded, Stockholm Syndrome-stricken fanbase. Its only a matter of time before this post will be labeled as simply complaining that the game is too hard, even if that is quite literally not your point.

[Veles]

引用自 Sonnenbank：

Well i agree with some parts of your post.

In the past most Dark Souls or Sekiro Boss felt somehow special/unique .
They had a specific moveset that was kinda easy to read and learn for the most part.
A moveset that you could learn within 20-30 minutes since it had good and clear visuals
and followed the rules of "logic" when it came to hitboxes , speed and recovery timings

When an enemy did a heavy attack his stamina was drained and he needed to recover.
When an enemy did a heavy attack it was safe to dodge and then counter
Also and thats why i lover Sekiro the most you could see and predict enemy movement when looking at their weapon arms.
you could position in different angles to the boss and be safe from hits
Also there was no delayed attacks.

Now with some parts of Elden Ring and with most parts of the DLC bosses its that

every single boss is just giant 5-7hit combos with AOE spam and ultra fast recovery timings ... mixed with delayed attacks, grabs and flying through the arena like on amphetamines....

Overall they are not that difficult to beat when you just level up your sadu tree blessings
and overlevel a bit.
you can just get hit a ton and still out-trade them in damage/healing.

But what i really miss is learning a moveset and then beating the bosses with style.
Like here in Sekiro.. having a fun dance where you can actually see what the opponent does and can react to it because you have clear visuals and time to react !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_WkZ6o8eNE

Elden Ring for the most part has become a mess in terms of bosses.....
after you win you have not much of an idea what the boss actually did because he just spazzed out with 1000attacks and aoe and lighting and fire and endless combos
and at one point you outhealed/outdamaged him without really knowing what actually happend

This 100%. Not to mention the attack animations often have very inconsistent weight in Elden Ring (look at the dual-sword boss from the DLC for a great example of this: sometimes the boss swings their sword like it's a cheap toy and shortly after winds up their swing like they're lifting a greatsword). I miss the era of logical attack telegraphs and it feels like we've gone past that.

[Leechboy]

bro forgot Manus exists

[Loren]

Yes. I think it is time for us to cut our losses and move on. We had a good run. It looks Miyazaki peaked around Bloodborne and will never get better than that.

[Blozzy]

I have more cling of nostalgia with DS3 and i loved that game to the bits, the bosses are balanced but with a spice of diffuclty.

Now im stuck on Rellana the freaking Malenia mage copycat and i hate, HATE the ridiculous health on her. All fancy super fast moves could kill you in like 4 hits and your own character is a stiff little Souls guy who can only dodge attacks and barely jump

[Sonnenbank]

引用自 Veles：

. I miss the era of logical attack telegraphs and it feels like we've gone past that.

i #2 that

[Unrighteous]

DS1 bosses were a bit too simple for my taste (still fun though). DS3's bosses were the closest to perfect; mechanically diverse, but plenty of opportunities to heal and attack. These DLC bosses feel like they belong in Sekiro, and they'd probably be pretty fun there.

I hated most of the bosses in the base game of Elden Ring, but the exploration and sense of adventure kept me going and ultimately led to a fantastic experience. The DLC keeps the exploration mostly the same, but amps all of my issues with the game up to 11. However, the sense of wonder I had on my first play-through is now gone, so it wasn't nearly as fun.

I really don't mind difficulty. I beat Sekiro's Mortal Journey and had a blast doing it. However, the bosses here just aren't fun to fight. If they made rolling on button press (not release), that would probably help, and make the deflect tear a permanent game mechanic. I'm sick of rolling through 12 hit combos to get a single stab in. I know if you're good you can find more opportunities (but I'm not good and I'm not getting good).

(Did beat it though, but it was miserable).

[no_idea_for_a_name]

引用自 P1：

I'm talking about original Dark Souls. Bosses used to be just a big guy with big hammer and straight forward combat. Now these new bosses (talking about DLC) have ganky 1 million health, they are about 10 times your size but zoom around the arena like a ping-pong ball never running out of stamina, while unleashing anime style 50 hit combos followed by 20 aerial combos followed by five AoE attacks (all that one shot you by the way).

Boss battles now are about chasing some 50 ton guy around the arena who moves at the speed of light, getting one or two hits in slowly whittling down a ganky healthbar praying you don't get hit once else you'll be one shot. I'm not even complaining about the bosses being hard, it's just tedious and unfulfilling. I remember when I first played DS1 and finally beast ornstein and smough after many tries I felt fulfilled. Now after beating these ganky cheap anime bosses I just think "thank ♥♥♥♥ that's over".

It's like these fast paced bosses were made for a fast paced action game with a player character that can move around fast and dodge. Not a a clunky dark souls character that has an asthma attack after 5 seconds of running and can barely jump.

I've always loved Dark Souls for its atmosphere and worldbuilding, despite the combat, which I've never been a fun of (I'm a fun of turn-based combat), even though I've played every single FS game since Demon Soul (the original). In the past, though, I could look past the combat and appreciate what I loved about those games. Now I can't do it anymore. The combat keeps getting faster and thus more annoying. In the end, it just means I'll stop buying FS games. It's been a good run while it lasted.

[Rain]

引用自 The Rookie：

I have more cling of nostalgia with DS3 and i loved that game to the bits, the bosses are balanced but with a spice of diffuclty.

Now im stuck on Rellana the freaking Malenia mage copycat and i hate, HATE the ridiculous health on her. All fancy super fast moves could kill you in like 4 hits and your own character is a stiff little Souls guy who can only dodge attacks and barely jump

How the hell are you stuck on her of all things? She is prob one of the easiest bosses. She only has 2 attack strings and her specials are so well telegraphed you can even get a heavy in before it starts.

[BKo]

引用自 Leechboy：

bro forgot Manus exists

Yeah that's when it started wasnt it, that and artorias. That was ground zero for the series becoming very action heavy, although the main culprit was low cost rolling. When rolling is so cheap, enemies have to ratchet up their attack strings to match.

[Unrighteous]

引用自 Rain：

引用自 The Rookie：

Now im stuck on Rellana

How the hell are you stuck on her of all things? She is prob one of the easiest bosses. She only has 2 attack strings and her specials are so well telegraphed you can even get a heavy in before it starts.

Nah, she's freaking hard if you have a low Scadutree level. I did her at like 3 and she sneezes at you and you die (I did have 40 vigor at the time though which was a huge mistake in hindsight lol). For me, she was the second hardest fight.

[IBOT]

Nope. I love the spectavle of some bosses.
The Dragon boss was amazing