DLC bosses suck, anyone miss old souls bosses?

[P1]

I'm talking about original Dark Souls. Bosses used to be just a big guy with big hammer and straight forward combat. Now these new bosses (talking about DLC) have ganky 1 million health, they are about 10 times your size but zoom around the arena like a ping-pong ball never running out of stamina, while unleashing anime style 50 hit combos followed by 20 aerial combos followed by five AoE attacks (all that one shot you by the way).

Boss battles now are about chasing some 50 ton guy around the arena who moves at the speed of light, getting one or two hits in slowly whittling down a ganky healthbar praying you don't get hit once else you'll be one shot. I'm not even complaining about the bosses being hard, it's just tedious and unfulfilling. I remember when I first played DS1 and finally beast ornstein and smough after many tries I felt fulfilled. Now after beating these ganky cheap anime bosses I just think "thank ♥♥♥♥ that's over".

It's like these fast paced bosses were made for a fast paced action game with a player character that can move around fast and dodge. Not a a clunky dark souls character that has an asthma attack after 5 seconds of running and can barely jump.

[Armando Broncas]

It's not the DLC bosses, the base game bosses are like this too.

[MɾSɾ3ɳιƚყ_97]

Originally posted by Armando Broncas:

It's not the DLC bosses, the base game bosses are like this too.

wdym? DLC bosses are pretty good, way better than half the base game bosses imo. People just complain because their broken builds don't work anymore with the attack power scaling system....Like there's so much different weapons you can use for certain bosses/enemies. You don't have to stick to the same build the entire playthrough LOL

[1100011]

Yep, first impression of magic knight boss whats her face ... not good.

[Jelle]

Originally posted by NisseDood:

Gotta blame B-team to make miyazaki and A-team look like flawless masterpiece designers.
Ds3 started the real downfall.
Ds2 still put its clallenge in the levels themselve like in ds1, ds3 is when the focus to hard bosses started and level design became secondary.

I don't disagree with the design philosophy going downhill from Ds3 and onwards (Ds2 > Ds3 don't fight me)
But let's also look at the past games objectively rather than through rose tinted glasses. Yes the level preceding the boss was part of the challenge, but let's be honest we all ran past the level straight into the boss room once we began learning any of the bosses. It's by no means perfect design either.

[Naewyng]

Originally posted by Jelle:

Originally posted by NisseDood:

Gotta blame B-team to make miyazaki and A-team look like flawless masterpiece designers.
Ds3 started the real downfall.
Ds2 still put its clallenge in the levels themselve like in ds1, ds3 is when the focus to hard bosses started and level design became secondary.

I don't disagree with the design philosophy going downhill from Ds3 and onwards (Ds2 > Ds3 don't fight me)
But let's also look at the past games objectively rather than through rose tinted glasses. Yes the level preceding the boss was part of the challenge, but let's be honest we all ran past the level straight into the boss room once we began learning any of the bosses. It's by no means perfect design either.

Except in ds2, where you couldn't just run to the boss room, because you didn't have i-frames when trying to enter the boss room xD

I still remember the cries of the idiots who died 20+ times just trying to get to the smelter demon, instead of killing the enemies on their way there and making them not spawn anymore.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Originally posted by hemorrhage911:

Originally posted by mbrism:

I feel like its alot of nostaliga talking. The genre was fresh. ER was my first fromsoft game, i did DS3 this january. It was a joke difficulty wise, which was refreshing. But there are so many similarities with ER. The Tree boss in DS3 is basically what you describe as this 50 ton yadiyada.

It's not always about getting your ass kicked for 6-8 hours. Sometimes bosses are just more fun.

I can beat Gael on my first try every time now. He's still a far better boss than any we got in the DLC.

Any DS3 boss is better than ER ones. Well, except for tree boss and ♥♥♥♥ like that. Do you know why? You can kill every DS3 boss, including DLC ones, in melee, without using block, parry, or dodge. No supertracking and 360 spinning 0,01 seconds before attack hits, no arena-wide AoEs, no unending 50-hits combos, no broken bosses who suddenly forget they have recovery frames after attack (yes, I'm talking about Malenia and her random bs). You can even walk out of Midir's death laser. DS3 truly rewards player for learning movesets. ER just throws bs at you until you learn with what interval you have to press dodge button. Forget about positioning, it doesn't exist here.

[MɾSɾ3ɳιƚყ_97]

Originally posted by I gurgle for Nurgle:

Originally posted by hemorrhage911:

It's not always about getting your ass kicked for 6-8 hours. Sometimes bosses are just more fun.

I can beat Gael on my first try every time now. He's still a far better boss than any we got in the DLC.

Any DS3 boss is better than ER ones. Well, except for tree boss and ♥♥♥♥ like that. Do you know why? You can kill every DS3 boss, including DLC ones, in melee, without using block, parry, or dodge. No supertracking and 360 spinning 0,01 seconds before attack hits, no arena-wide AoEs, no unending 50-hits combos, no broken bosses who suddenly forget they have recovery frames after attack (yes, I'm talking about Malenia and her random bs). You can even walk out of Midir's death laser. DS3 truly rewards player for learning movesets. ER just throws bs at you until you learn with what interval you have to press dodge button. Forget about positioning, it doesn't exist here.

Lmaoooooooo preach it!

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by I gurgle for Nurgle:

Originally posted by hemorrhage911:

It's not always about getting your ass kicked for 6-8 hours. Sometimes bosses are just more fun.

I can beat Gael on my first try every time now. He's still a far better boss than any we got in the DLC.

Any DS3 boss is better than ER ones. Well, except for tree boss and ♥♥♥♥ like that. Do you know why? You can kill every DS3 boss, including DLC ones, in melee, without using block, parry, or dodge. No supertracking and 360 spinning 0,01 seconds before attack hits, no arena-wide AoEs, no unending 50-hits combos, no broken bosses who suddenly forget they have recovery frames after attack (yes, I'm talking about Malenia and her random bs). You can even walk out of Midir's death laser. DS3 truly rewards player for learning movesets. ER just throws bs at you until you learn with what interval you have to press dodge button. Forget about positioning, it doesn't exist here.

If you think positioning dont exist here and that you can not beat Malenia wihtout dodge you are wrong twice..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAhkGaK-IKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO3wRm_iAn4
And dodge always (DS 1/2/3) was part of it, positioning also always had to do a lot more with positioning and your combat pace than just reaction.

[Door Into Summer]

While I had adapted to bosses and some enemies delayed and punishing attacks, where it should have been a chance for the player to strike, I dont care for them and think they are incredibly unfun. I automatically hate any enemy that swings over 5 times regardless if its easy to dodge or not.

[speds👃]

This wouldnt be a problem with sekiro combat. Hopefully this is fromsofts last of the (dated) souls melee combat

[1100011]

OK. Having fought Rellana for a while, everything wrong with Rellana:
- learning her normally, would be 80% loadscreen, due to the speed of her true combos.
- For the second time since Malenia, and never before, (DS*, BB, Sekiro), I used cheat engine to prevent the above problem (no death infinite FP for golden parry).
- Now it's a data entry job. No excitement, just observing the boss, testing the counter moves and practicing what works. Edit: this is to learn the fight, not to win it! Once I got gud, the gloves will be off.

Still, not a good look from my perspective for this boss. Once I know the fight, it may turn out very good. What FromSoft has forgotten AGAIN (see: Malenia) is that this game is NOT about good boss fights. It's about the enjoyment of learning and overcoming the fight.

[1100011]

Originally posted by Aerieanei:

Originally posted by 1100011:

OK. Having fought Rellana for a while, everything wrong with Rellana:
salt

I just wanted to see a cutscene with Rellana acting cute and flustered when Messmer compliments her for being good.

I suppose there are two kind of gamers 😂.

[nowayne64]

Originally posted by P1:

I'm talking about original Dark Souls. Bosses used to be just a big guy with big hammer and straight forward combat. Now these new bosses (talking about DLC) have ganky 1 million health, they are about 10 times your size but zoom around the arena like a ping-pong ball never running out of stamina, while unleashing anime style 50 hit combos followed by 20 aerial combos followed by five AoE attacks (all that one shot you by the way).

Boss battles now are about chasing some 50 ton guy around the arena who moves at the speed of light, getting one or two hits in slowly whittling down a ganky healthbar praying you don't get hit once else you'll be one shot. I'm not even complaining about the bosses being hard, it's just tedious and unfulfilling. I remember when I first played DS1 and finally beast ornstein and smough after many tries I felt fulfilled. Now after beating these ganky cheap anime bosses I just think "thank ♥♥♥♥ that's over".

It's like these fast paced bosses were made for a fast paced action game with a player character that can move around fast and dodge. Not a a clunky dark souls character that has an asthma attack after 5 seconds of running and can barely jump.

tyl

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by 1100011:

Originally posted by Aerieanei:

I just wanted to see a cutscene with Rellana acting cute and flustered when Messmer compliments her for being good.

I suppose there are two kind of gamers 😂.

How far into the DLC are you?
Also, I did not have that much of a problem with Rellana when I went light weight, she is very manageable.
Also I took less than 13min of fight to learn and bring her to 2 moons the first time, tho one of the other times I raged because of the unexpected combo she did to tag along with the 2 moons, making it impossible to me to "jump" the 2 moons or do anything (without rage she was beaten without much problem).

Try not to focus on winning and just on surviving, just hit when you notice is safe, you wil not neeed "so many tools" just to learn the fight (and again, Mesmer and other bosses will have a say at "used cheat engine to prevent the above problem") because Rellana compared to Mesmer and at least "another boss" is fairly easy (in comparison to these bosses)...

"Try not to focus on winning and just on surviving" -> says me who used NPC for Mesmer after getting denied 6x when Mesmer was 1 or 2 hits from getting killed and I lost my patience with him (I was not enjoying a good chunk of the fight anyway but that could had been a victory way sooner too, 6 times but I also had already done my practice with first tries and had "almost beaten that crap" for 6 times).
Still, if the cheat engine work for you to learn the boss... good luck, you will need if Rellana was that hard and after Mesmer that is still at least 1 boss that will make Mesmer look easy.

[GodfatherPlunger]

Originally posted by mbrism:

I feel like its alot of nostaliga talking. The genre was fresh. ER was my first fromsoft game, i did DS3 this january. It was a joke difficulty wise, which was refreshing. But there are so many similarities with ER. The Tree boss in DS3 is basically what you describe as this 50 ton yadiyada.

completely depends on what you play first. I found Elden Ring too easy for the most part.