DLC bosses suck, anyone miss old souls bosses?

[P1]

I'm talking about original Dark Souls. Bosses used to be just a big guy with big hammer and straight forward combat. Now these new bosses (talking about DLC) have ganky 1 million health, they are about 10 times your size but zoom around the arena like a ping-pong ball never running out of stamina, while unleashing anime style 50 hit combos followed by 20 aerial combos followed by five AoE attacks (all that one shot you by the way).

Boss battles now are about chasing some 50 ton guy around the arena who moves at the speed of light, getting one or two hits in slowly whittling down a ganky healthbar praying you don't get hit once else you'll be one shot. I'm not even complaining about the bosses being hard, it's just tedious and unfulfilling. I remember when I first played DS1 and finally beast ornstein and smough after many tries I felt fulfilled. Now after beating these ganky cheap anime bosses I just think "thank ♥♥♥♥ that's over".

It's like these fast paced bosses were made for a fast paced action game with a player character that can move around fast and dodge. Not a a clunky dark souls character that has an asthma attack after 5 seconds of running and can barely jump.

[hemorrhage911]

Originally posted by Ω Arkandor:

Some things could be improved with a patch.. like bosses shouldnt instantly attack you the moment you go inside the boss arena. For example Gaius and Bayle.

Gaius instantly uses the Hogrider rush and you dont even have time to summon (if you want to) and the move itself suffers from bad hitboxes and feels nearly impossible to dodge without BHS.

Bayle will instantly delete you as soon as you get inside the arena which give us two problems:

Igon summon sign is INSIDE the boss arena and its absolute madness to find it in the middle of the red ground while Bayle will attack you extremely fast.

Your summons - Friends, need to wait you to get inside first. But i had many situations where as soon as i get inside (playing as a summon)... Bayle fire hits me without us being able to do anything about it. It literally feels unfair.

They seem really afraid of another Mohg situation whee the boss edge walks towards you and gets obliterated by magic.

[Lylliana of Mirrah]

Originally posted by Ω Arkandor:

Some things could be improved with a patch.. like bosses shouldnt instantly attack you the moment you go inside the boss arena. For example Gaius and Bayle.

Gaius instantly uses the Hogrider rush and you dont even have time to summon (if you want to) and the move itself suffers from bad hitboxes and feels nearly impossible to dodge without BHS.

Bayle will instantly delete you as soon as you get inside the arena which give us two problems:

Igon summon sign is INSIDE the boss arena and its absolute madness to find it in the middle of the red ground while Bayle will attack you extremely fast.

Your summons - Friends, need to wait you to get inside first. But i had many situations where as soon as i get inside (playing as a summon)... Bayle fire hits me without us being able to do anything about it. It literally feels unfair.

this one too... can't use summon after entering is an issue as well or if you want to use buff.

[Neblunoa]

Originally posted by SmolAnubis:

i used to think that and then actually went back to play dark souls, along with a friend who had only played elden ring to show him the OG(ish. ain't got a ps4/5).

and man, we both agreeed that the bosses in 1 just kinda suck? they fold over and before the fight gets in a groove, often just do one thing, and just let you wail on them for extended periods of time before doing anything. the only fight that kept me on my toe was O&S, even manus was a lot less frantic than i remembered.

The bosses were adjusted to the agility and possibilities of the warrior, not like in Elden Ring where they have infinite stamina. Precisely its greatest virtue was in its simplicity, which allowed the chain of attacks to be easily learned. In Elden Ring, and especially in the DLC, you spend the entire battle spamming the roll and running away from the boss, they are not fun or well-designed combats.

[Lylliana of Mirrah]

Originally posted by hemorrhage911:

Originally posted by Ω Arkandor:

Some things could be improved with a patch.. like bosses shouldnt instantly attack you the moment you go inside the boss arena. For example Gaius and Bayle.

Gaius instantly uses the Hogrider rush and you dont even have time to summon (if you want to) and the move itself suffers from bad hitboxes and feels nearly impossible to dodge without BHS.

Bayle will instantly delete you as soon as you get inside the arena which give us two problems:

Igon summon sign is INSIDE the boss arena and its absolute madness to find it in the middle of the red ground while Bayle will attack you extremely fast.

Your summons - Friends, need to wait you to get inside first. But i had many situations where as soon as i get inside (playing as a summon)... Bayle fire hits me without us being able to do anything about it. It literally feels unfair.

They seem really afraid of another Mohg situation whee the boss edge walks towards you and gets obliterated by magic.

the devs pretty much like waging war against us the playerbase like rainbow six siege waging war against their player nerfing operators for no damn reason. but it was the opposite they programmed the boss to be super annoying instead lmfao

[Krazy Wallet]

Originally posted by Ω Arkandor:

Some things could be improved with a patch.. like bosses shouldnt instantly attack you the moment you go inside the boss arena. For example Gaius and Bayle.

Gaius instantly uses the Hogrider rush and you dont even have time to summon (if you want to) and the move itself suffers from bad hitboxes and feels nearly impossible to dodge without BHS.

Bayle will instantly delete you as soon as you get inside the arena which give us two problems:

Igon summon sign is INSIDE the boss arena and its absolute madness to find it in the middle of the red ground while Bayle will attack you extremely fast.

Your summons - Friends, need to wait you to get inside first. But i had many situations where as soon as i get inside (playing as a summon)... Bayle fire hits me without us being able to do anything about it. It literally feels unfair.

I was confused why Igon's sign was in the boss room. I wasn't going to summon him, but I was doing his quest and expected to see his sign. I spent time looking around the area thinking he must have moved somewhere and I didn't talk to him. I don't get why they broke that pattern but it is what it is I suppose

[Lylliana of Mirrah]

Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:

Originally posted by Ω Arkandor:

Some things could be improved with a patch.. like bosses shouldnt instantly attack you the moment you go inside the boss arena. For example Gaius and Bayle.

Gaius instantly uses the Hogrider rush and you dont even have time to summon (if you want to) and the move itself suffers from bad hitboxes and feels nearly impossible to dodge without BHS.

Bayle will instantly delete you as soon as you get inside the arena which give us two problems:

Igon summon sign is INSIDE the boss arena and its absolute madness to find it in the middle of the red ground while Bayle will attack you extremely fast.

Your summons - Friends, need to wait you to get inside first. But i had many situations where as soon as i get inside (playing as a summon)... Bayle fire hits me without us being able to do anything about it. It literally feels unfair.

I was confused why Igon's sign was in the boss room. I wasn't going to summon him, but I was doing his quest and expected to see his sign. I spent time looking around the area thinking he must have moved somewhere and I didn't talk to him. I don't get why they broke that pattern but it is what it is I suppose

igon wants to smack the dragon

[Elymnir]

The last bosses I encountered were Bayle, Midra, Scadutree Avatar, Messmer and Gaius. They're all remembrance bosses and quite strong.
My opinion is that they're all pretty fair. Gaius as well, even though I think he's too aggressive. Some have ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ moves, but it's still manageable (Messmer and his double strike before sliding away, you get automatically hit by the second strike when you dodge the first).
But I got the conviction that bosses were designed without taking into account how dodges work in Fromsoft games. Since we dodge on button release, there is always a slight delay. But bosses were designed with precise dodge timing and as if you could dodge instantly, which throws your timing off balance.
Gaius' boar charge is a perfect example of that. You have to dodge into him right before the snout touches you, otherwise you'll still get hit by its large hitbox.
Of course, you can adapt, try to dodge a bit before. But it's not intuitive, the right timing doesn't come as naturally as with an instant dodge.
We would see a lot less "game's too hard" if bosses were designed according to our moveset. Or if Fromsoft stopped repeating the same mistakes games after games, but it's pretty clear they won't. I love their games immensely, but they have a tendency to never learn from their mistakes, only from their successes.

[SmolAnubis]

Originally posted by Neblunoa:

Originally posted by SmolAnubis:

i used to think that and then actually went back to play dark souls, along with a friend who had only played elden ring to show him the OG(ish. ain't got a ps4/5).

and man, we both agreeed that the bosses in 1 just kinda suck? they fold over and before the fight gets in a groove, often just do one thing, and just let you wail on them for extended periods of time before doing anything. the only fight that kept me on my toe was O&S, even manus was a lot less frantic than i remembered.

The bosses were adjusted to the agility and possibilities of the warrior, not like in Elden Ring where they have infinite stamina. Precisely its greatest virtue was in its simplicity, which allowed the chain of attacks to be easily learned. In Elden Ring, and especially in the DLC, you spend the entire battle spamming the roll and running away from the boss, they are not fun or well-designed combats.

i mean that's the whole thing innit? you get less tools to respond with, and the bosses have less moves to question you with. i wouldn't really argue most of the bosses in this DLC have overtly confusing moveset, with the exception of rellana, which is by design, and the final boss, which is by pure bs lol.
putrescent has a super straight forward moveset, slow moves that telegraph well but have a weird rythm compared to the rest, and a few attacks that require/reward jumping
flower has the most abusable moveset of the whole DLC, allowing you to get tons of fully charged attacks if you know where to stand
mother also has mainly on hit attacks, with only a couple two hits combo, and while her big ♥♥♥♥ you black home move looks impressive, it's litterally just sprinting around her for a bit
midra is just kinda honest? no real BS, plenty of opening, madness is annoying, but there's a million ways to negate the buildup or at least make it super manageable.
lion gets flak, but his spinny move is free damage if you know where to stand, has a few grabs/dashes with generous punish windows
BAAAAAAYLE is more on the painful side, but if you learn to go for the head like with midir, he's pretty manageable
gaius just lets you use your horse, and like the tree sentinels, staying on the side where his weapon isn't severely limits his moveset to the point where he's either gonna try to do a puny body slam that leads to a massive punish, as goofy little stab, or he'll attempt to reposition.
and centipede lady was barely a fight for me, but i may have gone into with way too many blessing levels lol

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by hemorrhage911:

Now we have graces every 5 feet.

And people still complain about the difficulty of getting to places.

[ULTRA]

Originally posted by Leechboy:

bro forgot Manus exists

Manus has 6,665 hp in NG, Divine Beast Dancing Lion has 22,571 hp in NG. For anyone playing this whole time there's been a clear and conspicuous transition to the types of bosses that OP is describing, with the biggest jump probably being when Bloodborne came out. Just gigantic ridiculous ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Chinese dragon things filling up your whole entire screen, laying down damage fields the size of a house before jumping a city block away and jumping back within a second. The bosses are easily 3 times as fast, 3 times as large, and have 3 times as much health as they did back around 2010. I'm guessing at this rate when Dark Souls 7 comes out in 2040 the game will be Earth Defense Force except instead of having an entire city to run around in it'll be a living room-sized area.

[surreptitious]

Originally posted by wat7443:

Originally posted by Lylliana of Mirrah:

"complaining" is what you people always said to people who criticize the boss design. i can no longer take you srly.

I call it complaining, because the boss design is objectively good, op i feel, is just whining that it's to hard, and then blaming from software's boss design, when he is just objectively wrong, if you were to make an actual complaint, it would be about some of the hit-boxes, like the one on messmers snake attack as a good example.

Thanks Mr Know it all but wrong.
The bosses suck.
Its all the same boss every single one.

Soulless attack turrets.
No personality.

All share the same move set.
Attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack .
No chance to use player skills.
No chance to heal .
There are no strategy pages for the bosses because there are none.
Here let me break down the strat.

Roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll jump roll roll roll jump roll roll roll
ONE PLAYER ATTACK.
then the more complex
Roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll jump roll roll roll jump roll roll roll
ONE PLAYER ATTACK.
then Phase 2
Roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll jump roll roll roll jump roll roll roll
Roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll jump roll roll roll jump roll roll roll
ONE PLAYER ATTACK.

if you would find that tedious repetitive and boring.
well thats DLC BOSS

6 new skins on the same boss to deal with the same BS

[BKo]

Originally posted by surreptitious:

Originally posted by wat7443:

I call it complaining, because the boss design is objectively good, op i feel, is just whining that it's to hard, and then blaming from software's boss design, when he is just objectively wrong, if you were to make an actual complaint, it would be about some of the hit-boxes, like the one on messmers snake attack as a good example.

Thanks Mr Know it all but wrong.
The bosses suck.
Its all the same boss every single one.

Soulless attack turrets.
No personality.

All share the same move set.
Attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack .
No chance to use player skills.
No chance to heal .
There are no strategy pages for the bosses because there are none.
Here let me break down the strat.

Roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll jump roll roll roll jump roll roll roll
ONE PLAYER ATTACK.
then the more complex
Roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll jump roll roll roll jump roll roll roll
ONE PLAYER ATTACK.
then Phase 2
Roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll jump roll roll roll jump roll roll roll
Roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll roll jump roll roll roll jump roll roll roll
ONE PLAYER ATTACK.

if you would find that tedious repetitive and boring.
well thats DLC BOSS

6 new skins on the same boss to deal with the same BS

Nah that's far too complicated. Now it's
Larval Tear, respec into greatshield build with rotspear, beat the game, tell mom you finally got gud.

[Sieu]

Do you mean Messmer? When I was fighting it, I felt like I was battling a main character from a hack and slash game

[I'm cucked]

This idea that you can only attack once after an enemy has finished their 20 hit combo is so dumb I just can't deal dude.

This isn't true. You have to find your own openings. Your choosing to stand back and take the free attack. Maybe take some initiative and actually try to do something for yourself. You are your own worst enemy.

[P1]

Originally posted by plinplinplon:

This idea that you can only attack once after an enemy has finished their 20 hit combo is so dumb I just can't deal dude.

This isn't true. You have to find your own openings. Your choosing to stand back and take the free attack. Maybe take some initiative and actually try to do something for yourself. You are your own worst enemy.

Wow, fanboys are just making up complete and utter lies now. What absolute nonsense. Bosses have insane poise, if you attack while they're attacking you're going to get hit. They won't stop because you make an attack, they'll act as if you scratched them and fire back. I even watched that guy ginomachino (who has no hit the entire souls series back to back before you say he needs to git gud) and its the same thing, run and wait for opening after the boss finishes their 50 hit combo. But I'm sure you're a better player than him.