Charlie's Elden Ring Review is absolutely based.

[Grimmz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7IWHTvJEKI

2:52~

you heard it here first, now go use a summon if you can't get good.

complaining about difficulty is so smooth brain when you limit yourself from using all of your power/tools provided for you. if you are stuck and can't beat a boss, what do you do?
of course you go through your inventory/items to figure out what to change to improve.
craft some boost items, grab a summon, call a friend, all those are tools to help you get through.

heck even Miyazaki himself has said that of course a player should look up a guide online to beat an encounter in game, he 100% supports that. its not shameful, you don't need to ego about it. if you're not simply good enough, then help yourself!

[楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE]

Publicado originalmente por Holken:

Charlies point is completely blown out. It has not always been as difficult as you make it. I could go straight sword shield pure phys against every boss from 1-3 without getting damage checked or attritioned to death. Elden Ring isn't like that. They expect you to play it with summons, with phantoms, what if I don't want that. I shouldn't have to do these things to make the fights even remotely fair.

If a boss, is designed with a difficulty even when spirits are used. It is going to be naturally more difficult to do it without spirits summons or NPC summons.

If you couldn't cope, especially when that is YOUR CHOICE. Why should you be taken seriously when you complain about something of your own making?

I solo the bosses when I can. So far, only Bayle forced me to use a spirit summon. As frustrating as it may be. It is my decision and I don't go around blaming others or the developers.

[Carnifex]

Imagine coping so hard and needing to defend your gaming accomplishments that when someone uses something the game provides you in abundance, its own levelling system and it essentially being balance around, you cry out its cheesing/cheating/easy mode etc because you did it by yourself? And yet, no mention about any issues with assistance from other player whatsoever? The absolute hypocrisy.

[boy i'll whip ya head]

Publicado originalmente por vamirez:

Publicado originalmente por boy i'll whip ya head:

it IS cheesing. No game ever had such a broken ability like this before. before you either git gud or you quit, with elden ring you dont have to have any skill whatsoever, you can just use a summon and first try the boss every time because the AI focuses the infinite hp summon the entire time. you are taking away everything that made the souls game good, you dont get any satisfaction out of beating the bosses you just get carried. again dont know how many times i have to say this but if you have fun getting carried then cool, good for you, you're a casual player and thats absolutely fine, nothing wrong with that and im not hating on you. but dont get mad at people rightfully saying that you're taking out all the fun and difficulty out of a series where the difficulty is the main focus. spirit summons were created to have casuals easily beat any boss without actually having to learn, so it is cheesing. Elden ring was designed for casual players to get into the series which is why spirit summons are there. The "but its part of the game" argument is moot, there are so many games that give you optional broken one shot weapons or items and it takes out all of the fun because at that point you're not playing the game you're basically cheating and the game is playing itself. Just because its in the game doesn't mean its not cheesy. You are missing out on sooooo much fun and satisfaction by using summons. Like seriously man the best part about souls games is slowly learning and adapting to beat a boss in an adrenaline fueled fight and spirit summons takes away all of that and just allows you to kill the boss from behind while your summon tanks everything. you're not even playing the game at that point. spamming attacks from behind a boss while its focusing on something else is not fun or satisfying at all.

No game ever?

In DS1 you can summon 2 NPCs for more than one boss fight. Same in DS2. In DS2 you can summon NPCs to crawl the zone with you. In all DS games and BB you can summon NPCs and other players. And now spirits are suddenly "taking away everything that made the souls game good"?

How? There's no difference.

You are just deluding yourself. In DS1 Solaire told us about "jolly cooperation" - beat bosses with your friends :) And here you are trying to tell me that summons are for newbies to the series and nothing like this existed before. That's silly.

For other players exploring these worlds can be the main focus of "what makes souls game good", no? Why does your main thing have to apply to everyone?

You decide playing the game differently is not fun. Not us.

You tell us "this is cheesing" - that is gatekeeping. And it is bs.

"Hey guys, you can play like this - while I don't care we both know it's cheese, right?" wink wink - that is frankly a toxic behavior.

You can play like you want. The real issue arises when people think they must play like you and are not having fun. This needs to stop.

if you compare DS series summons to elden ring summons its clear you've never played those games before in your life. the summons in the souls series were miserably bad, they did no damage and died extremely quickly. it is no comparison whatsoever to the massive hp tanks that deal insane damage like in elden ring. npc summons in souls games have always been terrible until now where they made them broken. "exploring worlds" is not fun. no one has fun "exploring" that is absolute bs. people have fun with the combat and challenge, exploration is what gets you to the combat where the real fun begins. riding around on torrent for 15 minutes trying to find something to fight is not fun. neither is ignoring the bosses while your summon tanks every hit while you smack it from behind with no risk to you whatsoever. if you think running around looking at the environment is fun you're just boring which would also explain why you think ignoring the boss to get a cheap kill on it is also fun. devs put broken things in their games all the time doesn't mean you're not cheapening out the experience by using them. that's like saying its okay to use cheat codes because the devs put them in the game. why not invalidate the entire game by using infinite hp and damage cheats? the devs put them in the game!

At this point im convinced that everyone saying spirit summons arent cheap and boring are people that are absolutely awful at video games and arent capable of learning to adapt and beating the boss themselves so they have to rely on the built in carry mechanic the devs put in for casual players who dont want to put in the time or effort.

[vamirez]

Publicado originalmente por boy i'll whip ya head:

Publicado originalmente por vamirez:

No game ever?

In DS1 you can summon 2 NPCs for more than one boss fight. Same in DS2. In DS2 you can summon NPCs to crawl the zone with you. In all DS games and BB you can summon NPCs and other players. And now spirits are suddenly "taking away everything that made the souls game good"?

How? There's no difference.

You are just deluding yourself. In DS1 Solaire told us about "jolly cooperation" - beat bosses with your friends :) And here you are trying to tell me that summons are for newbies to the series and nothing like this existed before. That's silly.

For other players exploring these worlds can be the main focus of "what makes souls game good", no? Why does your main thing have to apply to everyone?

You decide playing the game differently is not fun. Not us.

You tell us "this is cheesing" - that is gatekeeping. And it is bs.

"Hey guys, you can play like this - while I don't care we both know it's cheese, right?" wink wink - that is frankly a toxic behavior.

You can play like you want. The real issue arises when people think they must play like you and are not having fun. This needs to stop.

if you compare DS series summons to elden ring summons its clear you've never played those games before in your life. the summons in the souls series were miserably bad, they did no damage and died extremely quickly. it is no comparison whatsoever to the massive hp tanks that deal insane damage like in elden ring. npc summons in souls games have always been terrible until now where they made them broken. "exploring worlds" is not fun. no one has fun "exploring" that is absolute bs. people have fun with the combat and challenge, exploration is what gets you to the combat where the real fun begins. riding around on torrent for 15 minutes trying to find something to fight is not fun. neither is ignoring the bosses while your summon tanks every hit while you smack it from behind with no risk to you whatsoever. if you think running around looking at the environment is fun you're just boring which would also explain why you think ignoring the boss to get a cheap kill on it is also fun. devs put broken things in their games all the time doesn't mean you're not cheapening out the experience by using them. that's like saying its okay to use cheat codes because the devs put them in the game. why not invalidate the entire game by using infinite hp and damage cheats? the devs put them in the game!

At this point im convinced that everyone saying spirit summons arent cheap and boring are people that are absolutely awful at video games and arent capable of learning to adapt and beating the boss themselves so they have to rely on the built in carry mechanic the devs put in for casual players who dont want to put in the time or effort.

I played all the games with summons, and of course, they are not "miserably bad". You are simply lying. And why - just to try and make your point?

And it gets more ridiculous with statements like "exploring worlds is not fun".

Items/abilities/major game mechanics are clearly not comparable to cheat codes.

Yes, we are all awful at video games lol. I can only smh at this point...

[Baelfyr]

I remember when I stopped watching Charlie. Oh, to be 16 again.

[Agoraphobic Meep]

The real reason to use the NPC's this time around isn't just because they make the dlc easier, but because some of them are absolute chads. Igon my beloved. "Curse you bayle! I will riddle with holes, your rotten hide! With a hail of harpoons! With every last drop of my being!" goes ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard.

[Sigma]

Publicado originalmente por Agoraphobic Meep:

The real reason to use the NPC's this time around isn't just because they make the dlc easier, but because some of them are absolute chads. Igon my beloved. "Curse you bayle! I will riddle with holes, your rotten hide! With a hail of harpoons! With every last drop of my being!" goes ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard.

Absolutely, this one was good
The only thing I wish they did was make it autosummon when you press Y on the sign, not have to select Yes and confirm, since the sign is inside the arena, you almost always get hit while summoning him

Also, for the main topic:
I usually try to kill the boss alone, but if I get stuck too much I'll try different strategies, change talismans, change flasks, and as a last resort I'll pop a spirit ash to take up some of the aggro, not using mimic tho
And sometimes even the spirit ash doesn't help much and I end up dying
All those tools are present in the game, and as I don't consider myself a pro at this game, I'll use whatever the game say I can use
"But you didn't beat the game if you used X"
Don't care, the game says I did

[Nifty]

Publicado originalmente por Sunbather:

Shutting down enemy's AI is a bad solution to bosses' difficulty problem. The argument that mimic tear not called "cheating" in the game itself is just stupid. Miyazaki's opinion doesn't matter if the boss AI is so broken you need to deliberately shut it down.

Sekiro didn't need that, Bloodborne didn't need it, DS3 didn't need that. The reason they didn't need that is because those games were just much better balanced in terms of what the player can do.

I love Seikiro and Bloodborne.

DKS 3 was kind of a derivative victory lap that didn't really start being a game until very late in the boss cycle.

I don't agree with this point, I think most of the new dlc bosses hit just right in terms of balancing for endgame players.

The one that is maybe a bit much is *spoiler*

Last boss phase 2

He literally feels like fighting a DBZ character complete with multi-teleport hit strings.

Most people I see who end up winning, don't really do so out of confidence and more so eek out the win however they can.

But maybe for the last Elden Ring boss ever that's okay.

You're basically in way over your head, and it's designed to make you feel small by comparison.

[fheadx]

Maybe this isn't the best place to say this, but it's only a video game. Your results and how you achieved them have no consequences. Possibly, players are caring way too damn much about this. Ymmv.

[amathy]

Publicado originalmente por Umbral Priestess:

Publicado originalmente por amathy:

If you get your ass kicked while using mimic tear or tiche it’s because you suck, not because they don’t make the game easy

Wrong. and i said the ash can get it's ass handed to it, and no you don't "suck" but im not getting into that pre school mentality conversation.

When you grow up we can have a real discussion. but i'll do you one better, if you have ever died to any boss, ever, you suck. that's the type of convo you want.

Not wrong. You are given so many windows to constantly stance break and bleed bosses with summons it’s borderline unfair. Telling me to grow up doesn’t change that. It’s not my problem if you don’t understand what you’re doing.

[Umbral Priestess]

Publicado originalmente por amathy:

Publicado originalmente por Umbral Priestess:

Wrong. and i said the ash can get it's ass handed to it, and no you don't "suck" but im not getting into that pre school mentality conversation.

When you grow up we can have a real discussion. but i'll do you one better, if you have ever died to any boss, ever, you suck. that's the type of convo you want.

Not wrong. You are given so many windows to constantly stance break and bleed bosses with summons it’s borderline unfair. Telling me to grow up doesn’t change that. It’s not my problem if you don’t understand what you’re doing.

It is indeed wrong, i know far more what i'm doing than you do it seems, example, "stance break and bleed bosses" implying people use your personal weapons, not every weapon bleeds nor do they stance break as easily, if you're not a melee focused build, which are very easy to to use in this game,

And you're still wrong on the summons, as they die very quickly for the small window that the boss isn't targeting you, nothing unfair about it,

Maybe you should actually play the game before making these comments, you clearly have no idea how summons function in fights that aren't limgrave cave bosses. and try something other than a braindead melee bleed build R1 spam.

Like i said, when you grow up, come back and and you may learn something. right now you're too lost in your own world.

[boy i'll whip ya head]

Publicado originalmente por Umbral Priestess:

Publicado originalmente por amathy:

Not wrong. You are given so many windows to constantly stance break and bleed bosses with summons it’s borderline unfair. Telling me to grow up doesn’t change that. It’s not my problem if you don’t understand what you’re doing.

It is indeed wrong, i know far more what i'm doing than you do it seems, example, "stance break and bleed bosses" implying people use your personal weapons, not every weapon bleeds nor do they stance break as easily, if you're not a melee focused build, which are very easy to to use in this game,

And you're still wrong on the summons, as they die very quickly for the small window that the boss isn't targeting you, nothing unfair about it,

Maybe you should actually play the game before making these comments, you clearly have no idea how summons function in fights that aren't limgrave cave bosses. and try something other than a braindead melee bleed build R1 spam.

Like i said, when you grow up, come back and and you may learn something. right now you're too lost in your own world.

"I know far more than you do it seems" as you talk about using summons and still somehow having them die when they have no exaggeration 20x your HP. It is ridiculously easy to stance break bosses with summons using ANY weapon and any status effect you have is guaranteed multiple times per fight with no issue at all.

[boy i'll whip ya head]

Publicado originalmente por vamirez:

Publicado originalmente por boy i'll whip ya head:

if you compare DS series summons to elden ring summons its clear you've never played those games before in your life. the summons in the souls series were miserably bad, they did no damage and died extremely quickly. it is no comparison whatsoever to the massive hp tanks that deal insane damage like in elden ring. npc summons in souls games have always been terrible until now where they made them broken. "exploring worlds" is not fun. no one has fun "exploring" that is absolute bs. people have fun with the combat and challenge, exploration is what gets you to the combat where the real fun begins. riding around on torrent for 15 minutes trying to find something to fight is not fun. neither is ignoring the bosses while your summon tanks every hit while you smack it from behind with no risk to you whatsoever. if you think running around looking at the environment is fun you're just boring which would also explain why you think ignoring the boss to get a cheap kill on it is also fun. devs put broken things in their games all the time doesn't mean you're not cheapening out the experience by using them. that's like saying its okay to use cheat codes because the devs put them in the game. why not invalidate the entire game by using infinite hp and damage cheats? the devs put them in the game!

At this point im convinced that everyone saying spirit summons arent cheap and boring are people that are absolutely awful at video games and arent capable of learning to adapt and beating the boss themselves so they have to rely on the built in carry mechanic the devs put in for casual players who dont want to put in the time or effort.

I played all the games with summons, and of course, they are not "miserably bad". You are simply lying. And why - just to try and make your point?

And it gets more ridiculous with statements like "exploring worlds is not fun".

Items/abilities/major game mechanics are clearly not comparable to cheat codes.

Yes, we are all awful at video games lol. I can only smh at this point...

im the liar? give me a single summon in the souls series that were actually useful and didnt die in 3 hits or did peanut damage. When you can literally stand afk and watch as your mimic tear solos the boss to half hp or more and say DS summons were just as good and call me a liar you clearly never played the souls games. The only thing good about them in those games is the fact they can give you some breathing room by tanking a couple hits but even then they died wayyyyyy faster and the bosses HP was multiplied depending on how many summons you used which doesnt happen with spirit summons in elden ring.

[vamirez]

Publicado originalmente por boy i'll whip ya head:

Publicado originalmente por vamirez:

I played all the games with summons, and of course, they are not "miserably bad". You are simply lying. And why - just to try and make your point?

And it gets more ridiculous with statements like "exploring worlds is not fun".

Items/abilities/major game mechanics are clearly not comparable to cheat codes.

Yes, we are all awful at video games lol. I can only smh at this point...

im the liar? give me a single summon in the souls series that were actually useful and didnt die in 3 hits or did peanut damage. When you can literally stand afk and watch as your mimic tear solos the boss to half hp or more and say DS summons were just as good and call me a liar you clearly never played the souls games. The only thing good about them in those games is the fact they can give you some breathing room by tanking a couple hits but even then they died wayyyyyy faster and the bosses HP was multiplied depending on how many summons you used which doesnt happen with spirit summons in elden ring.

You are greatly downplaying the strength of NPC summons in earlier games, while you greatly exaggerate the mimic tear as the ultimate equalizer to the point that statements you make are indeed lies. Ofc NPC summons were not super-weak or useless, and could certainly hold their own in the fights. You want examples?

Solaire
Lautrec
Tarkus
Lucatiel
Bellclaire
Glencour

There you have six.

Also note that the super-OP mimic you dread so much when other players summon it in the privacy of their own games (smh) only exists if you minmax it with your build, which most players won't do. It's an OP build, like any other OP-build out there - and there are plenty.

Boss HP was not multiplied, it was increased, but ofc it wasn't multiplied by a factor of 2 or something like that. Using a summons vastly outperforms the added HP. The boss HP increase still happens in ER if you use a golden summon sign with the same effect. Still a great idea to use both the jellyfish and Rogier on Margit :)

[Umbral Priestess]

Publicado originalmente por boy i'll whip ya head:

Publicado originalmente por Umbral Priestess:

It is indeed wrong, i know far more what i'm doing than you do it seems, example, "stance break and bleed bosses" implying people use your personal weapons, not every weapon bleeds nor do they stance break as easily, if you're not a melee focused build, which are very easy to to use in this game,

And you're still wrong on the summons, as they die very quickly for the small window that the boss isn't targeting you, nothing unfair about it,

Maybe you should actually play the game before making these comments, you clearly have no idea how summons function in fights that aren't limgrave cave bosses. and try something other than a braindead melee bleed build R1 spam.

Like i said, when you grow up, come back and and you may learn something. right now you're too lost in your own world.

"I know far more than you do it seems" as you talk about using summons and still somehow having them die when they have no exaggeration 20x your HP. It is ridiculously easy to stance break bosses with summons using ANY weapon and any status effect you have is guaranteed multiple times per fight with no issue at all.

Incorrect, actually play the game first, it's getting tiresome responding to people who haven't played the game for more than 30 minutes or actually understands it.

actually, this is my fault, i need to put a limit on the minimum IQ i'll respond too.