You can't learn a boss by fighting them anymore

[Chris1]

Playing the DLC more and this sticks out to me. You can't really learn the bosses by fighting them anymore. All the DLC bosses follow all the same trends - infinite poise, multiple hit endless combos, wide AoE attacks that have small dodge windows, ability to instantly teleport exactly to where the player is - and most attacks are enough to one or two shot the player. The DLC is basically an exercise in running back to the enemy that killed you and hoping to learn a single attack and then rinse and repeat.

It's really just an exercise in bashing your head against the wall over and over. Bosses in souls games didn't use to be like this. Orphan of Kos is one of my favorite bosses of all time, and you could actually learn his moves as the fight went on. Same with Dancer of Boreal Valley and Slave Knight Gael. Go back and revisit those fights and it was more of a chess match where you could learn and adapt during the fight as it was going on.

The Elden Ring "difficulty" mainly just comes from multiple attacks strung together with hyper aggression and those attacks basically designed to one-shot the player with little to no predictability and no ability to use basic tools such as distance management or poise breaking - fundamental game play concepts. What happened From Soft? It's fine in small doses, but when it's your only trick for every single boss, it's just lacking.

Just go through the DLC and count how many enemies have these attributes - wide AoE, endless multiple-hit combos, infinite poise, ability to teleport exactly where you are negating any distance management, and how many attacks can one/two shot you.

We can all "git gud" but if the way to do it is like this, is it really fun? I think FromSoft hyper focused on giving a challenge to "die hard players" and forgot to actually make a fun game. It's disappointing because most of the content between the ridiculous boss fights is actually a lot of fun.

[Ronin Gamer]

Originalmente postado por Sgt. Flaw:

Originalmente postado por rlh445:

if it took you six hours, you didn't 'get gud' you 'got lucky,' with RNG moveset. clearly YOUR opinion and skills are trash.

Practicing doesn't get someone good...great take on life lmao

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF "GIT GUD" YOU DOLT! Practicing a fight so you improve your timing, your reflexes, your ability to dodge their attacks and know when something is coming. THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS.......
The hell are you smoking, please don't share it with anyone else. It's doing brain damage.

[Something]

Originalmente postado por rlh445:

Originalmente postado por A Cat :3:

I just spent 6 hours getting gud to beat Rellana, your opinion is trash.

if it took you six hours, you didn't 'get gud' you 'got lucky,' with RNG moveset. clearly YOUR opinion and skills are trash.

"It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winnings winning." - Some Bald Guy

But sucking it up for 6 hours on a boss just to turn around and call other people scrubs is the definition of cringe.

[D. Flame]

Originalmente postado por yttik:

Originalmente postado por D. Flame:

That shows a distinct LACK OF CARE towards fairness.

YES, I KNOW. What point did you think I was making? You know I'm one person and not someone else in this thread right?

This is the series with mimics that no new player can know about.

You can see mimics breathing if you pay attention, and their chains set differently than regular chests. Even aside from that, you can test them by attacking the chest first.

[Sgt. Flaw]

Originalmente postado por Ronin Gamer:

Originalmente postado por Sgt. Flaw:

Practicing doesn't get someone good...great take on life lmao

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF "GIT GUD" YOU DOLT! Practicing a fight so you improve your timing, your reflexes, your ability to dodge their attacks and know when something is coming. THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS.......
The hell are you smoking, please don't share it with anyone else. It's doing brain damage.

Wow..read again.

[Ronin Gamer]

Originalmente postado por jjstraka34:

I don't even think any Elden Ring bosses have evolved much in difficulty from since Orphan of Kos or Gael. Maybe a few of them WOULD be, but there are infinitely more options to rely upon to get the job done. Especially compared to Bloodborne.

a decent amount this yes. The sheer amount of options and the ability to go "This boss is too tough for me atm, let me go these other various directions and see what I find and see if I can level a little bit..." That alone does a lot. I may not like open world games at all anymore, but the option to go do something else and come back later can do a lot to help.

[Something]

Originalmente postado por D. Flame:

Originalmente postado por yttik:

YES, I KNOW. What point did you think I was making? You know I'm one person and not someone else in this thread right?

This is the series with mimics that no new player can know about.

You can see mimics breathing if you pay attention, and their chains set differently than regular chests. Even aside from that, you can test them by attacking the chest first.

Can also hurl a Lloyd's Talisman at them to put them to sleep and just casually take the item out of their mouths.

[Coin]

Originalmente postado por D. Flame:

I was giving you the benefit of doubt. If you are talking about anything else in that fight being unfair, it is just laughable.

Same. Seems like you're afraid of facing a counterpoint or just trolling.

[Something]

Originalmente postado por Sgt. Flaw:

Originalmente postado por Ronin Gamer:

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF "GIT GUD" YOU DOLT! Practicing a fight so you improve your timing, your reflexes, your ability to dodge their attacks and know when something is coming. THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS.......
The hell are you smoking, please don't share it with anyone else. It's doing brain damage.

Wow..read again.

Oh and practice, by definition, gets people good. That's why it's called practice. You practice something to get good at it. What kind of no-brained take is this? Are you having a stroke? Do we need to call someone?

[willy bammy]

Having to die to a boss to learn it is not a new concept, it's been a part of fromsoft boss design for awhile. How many people do you think beat Capra Demon, or Bed of Chaos, or Nameless King, or Sister Friede, or O&S on their very first ever attempt?
It's even harder for bosses whose second phase is entirely different from the first (nameless king and friede for example) so it's the like first phase gatekeeps your ability to learn the next one. But that didn't start with Elden Ring

[D. Flame]

Originalmente postado por jjstraka34:

I don't even think any Elden Ring bosses have evolved much in difficulty from since Orphan of Kos or Gael. Maybe a few of them WOULD be, but there are infinitely more options to rely upon to get the job done. Especially compared to Bloodborne.

Bloodborne was more fair because the player was just as quick as the enemies, there was no equipment weight, so you always had the fastest dodge speed, you could parry at range, etc.

The enemies were fast in BB, but so were the players. Meanwhile, ER has BB like enemies with DS2 like players.

Fair: Slow enemies & Slow Players
Fair: Fast enemies & Fast Players
Unfair: Fast Enemies & Slow Players

[Ronin Gamer]

Originalmente postado por Sgt. Flaw:

Originalmente postado por Ronin Gamer:

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF "GIT GUD" YOU DOLT! Practicing a fight so you improve your timing, your reflexes, your ability to dodge their attacks and know when something is coming. THAT'S WHAT THAT MEANS.......
The hell are you smoking, please don't share it with anyone else. It's doing brain damage.

Wow..read again.

No I think you need to. I quote: " Practicing doesn't get someone good...great take on life lmao." There isn't a lot of ways to take that other than the obvious. Care to elaborate on your very poor take and how you didn't construct it well?
Don't worry, I'll take care of that for you. Later.

[Sgt. Flaw]

Originalmente postado por Ronin Gamer:

Originalmente postado por Sgt. Flaw:

Wow..read again.

No I think you need to. I quote: " Practicing doesn't get someone good...great take on life lmao." There isn't a lot of ways to take that other than the obvious. Care to elaborate on your very poor take and how you didn't construct it well?
Don't worry, I'll take care of that for you. Later.

it's sarcasm genius

[ShivaX]

Originalmente postado por Key:

Sh*t like the Curseblade Omens is straight up obnoxious.

The one on the staircase about made my punch my computer.
They knew what they were doing, which is why they put a Stake right at the bottom of the staircase.

[Haru]

Pattern recognition is a part of most games that require brain cells. Sekiro, for example, is entirely based around patter recognition and memory. In Elden Ring and Souls, there's generally more wiggle room for experimentation and intuitive thinking, with the sheer number of tools at your disposal. You can have both. The game isn't hard coded to make you approach everything in the exact same way to win. You look for a method that's tailored to you, or methods, rather. You practice your build until you're good with it.

For some people, that involves learning a boss's capabilities from the ground up so they can solo it by responding to its attacks in a way that personally works for them.

For others, it involves sorcery spam while the boss has a 1v1 against an automated drone.

[ShivaX]

Originalmente postado por willy bammy:

Having to die to a boss to learn it is not a new concept, it's been a part of fromsoft boss design for awhile. How many people do you think beat Capra Demon, or Bed of Chaos, or Nameless King, or Sister Friede, or O&S on their very first ever attempt?
It's even harder for bosses whose second phase is entirely different from the first (nameless king and friede for example) so it's the like first phase gatekeeps your ability to learn the next one. But that didn't start with Elden Ring

The difference is when I died to Nameless King or Frieda, I almost always knew exactly why it happened and what I did wrong. Maybe with a new phase or ability I get caught off guard the first time, but after that it was execution. I knew why I lost and when I won, I knew why I won.

Frieda is still my favorite fight in a Fromsoft game I think. Gael might win if he wasn't at the end of a DLC I otherwise didn't care for. Nameless King is up there. Malenia got close, but I got tired of the nonsense and cheese.

I should be rewarded for knowing my enemy's attack patterns. I should be able to say "now is the time where I can drink an Estus or get a hit in," I shouldn't get input read and have them fly across the arena to smack me while I try to drink in that moment of learned respite that leads immediately into another 4-6 attack chain any one of which probably kills me. Or god forbid I try to swing an ultra greatsword at them without hopping around like Mario.