The DLC boss fights are great visually but atrociously bad in terms of mechanics

[Dr.Acula]

Looking at the boss fights in Shadow of the Erdtree they look cool from a visual perspective. Seeing the combat animation of Rellana, Messmer or Bayle is kinda cool.

Dealing with the mechanics behind it though is a nightmare.

All of the main bosses I've seen have insanely rapid attack combos with very little breaks in between and barely any time to either recover or damage a boss. The patterns are extremely difficult to read because they are extremely long and there are various similar attacks where it becomes almost impossible to tell them apart and plan accordingly.

Bosses like Rellana also seem to be intentionally designed around forcing the player to use parry because dodging these fast long attack combos is highly unreliable and blocking only works for phase one as in p2 she just starts damaging you with magic and fire. Usually bosses in the main game of Elden Ring can be defeated with different strategies. The DLC bosses appear to be designed with very specific combat styles in mind and if you can't do that particular style then you're basically screwed.

The DLC bosses also once again are shining a huge spotlight on the problems fromsoft games had with their camera controls for many MANY years. Bayle for example as a big dragon has a singular lock-on point which is his head. Now he has attack moves where he jumps on you or moves towards which puts his head behind your character once the attack has landed. As a result if you lock on your character will turn around to face Bayle's head. When he attacks though he will do so with his claws that are on his body and because you turned your back on those claws even if you put your shield up Bayle will hit you from behind even though he's basically supposed to stand in front of you.

Now someone will obviously come in and be like "just don't lock on then" but this is not really an option in many fights due to the high movement and attack speed of the bosses and the game constantly trying to move the camera into the direction where you're running to when you aren't locked on.

The problem with the lock-on points and camera as mentioned has existed for many years and it already seriously annoyed me in DS3 for example in phase 1 of the Immortal King (when he sits on his dragon). That boss is not that difficult to be honest but the camera controls make it more difficult as it otherwise would be as you're constantly fighting the camera trying to keep the boss in view to see what he's doing.

Anyway the Elden Ring DLC has various large bosses and due to the increased speed of the fights these large bosses are becoming more and more problematic to handle.

Also getting back to the boss mechanics in general. They seem to have taken the wrong lessons from the main game where instead of creating more methodical and strategic boss fights where clear patterns can be observed and countered (see Godrick, Godfrey - although he's borderline - or Radagan) they seem to focus entirely on spectacle fights like Malenia and Maliketh which I consider to be among the worst bosses in the main game.

Then the fights also seem to be intended to be won without getting hit as various bosses have insta kill attacks. Messmer with his impale kills you even if you're at full health. Rellana with her full moon bomb kills you instantly as well if you fail to dodge the first hit because if the first one hits you then the other two will as well. Most of the major boss fights end within 15 seconds of entering the room because they pull some major attack combo right at the start (Messmer for example going into the air, jumping on you - over 50% health gone if it hits you - and then followed by a fire explosion which also deals about the same => explosion is difficult to time the dodge right). And it's not just me getting literally thrown out of the areana within seconds. I've seen the huge amount of blood spots right at the boss portals. There's a lot of players getting murdered within seconds of a fight starting.

This cannot be considered good design in terms of boss mechanics.

[Aldrenean]

100% agree. The more games Fromsoft makes the more it feels like they're forgetting what makes a fight a fun challenge as opposed to a rage-inducing slogfest. There should at least be a prayer of correctly reacting to a boss' attack the first time you see it, but almost every attack seems designed to fool the player and thus demand multiple attempts just to learn each attack. This is way worse when there are second phases with new attacks.

[Myrmuz [IRL]]

All of the "difficult" enemies are designed this, way, it's quite repetitive.

They launch themselves at you while doing long, rapid combos, usually with deliberately weird timing in order to bait a rollcatch.

It becomes very boring. Glad I'm playing a mage, not looking forward to melee character playthrough.

At least the Furnace Golems aren't like that. They do a lot of damage but they're easy enough to deal with.

The final boss phase 2 is insane. I don't even get how you're supposed to damage him. He just keeps attacking.
They're going to nerf him (like radahn).

[Koryiaki]

This honestly reads as "in the last two years I have developed dementia and tanked my hand-eye coordination". Ranalla literally has attack paterns more predictable than crucible knights with 4 attacks at most in a string. She is parryable, guard counterable and extremely dodgeable, you can also easily magic her, personally took her and lion out wit pure faith for funsies.

I think this just speaks to how rigid and stubborn gamers have gotten more than anything about the game, people don't seem to want to learn even simple patterns, or change their stats or even talismans to make a boss easier. I think the real issue is people want a any build can beat anything easily experience and the devs wanted people to think, adapt, and use all of the tools at their disposal.

[ssj grumpig]

Originally posted by Koryiaki:

Ranalla literally has attack paterns more predictable than crucible knights

Don't make good arguments only to sully them with goofy statements like this

I agree with the spirit of your post

[King of Yugoslavia]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Looking at the boss fights in Shadow of the Erdtree they look cool from a visual perspective. Seeing the combat animation of Rellana, Messmer or Bayle is kinda cool.

Dealing with the mechanics behind it though is a nightmare.

All of the main bosses I've seen have insanely rapid attack combos with very little breaks in between and barely any time to either recover or damage a boss. The patterns are extremely difficult to read because they are extremely long and there are various similar attacks where it becomes almost impossible to tell them apart and plan accordingly.

Bosses like Rellana also seem to be intentionally designed around forcing the player to use parry because dodging these fast long attack combos is highly unreliable and blocking only works for phase one as in p2 she just starts damaging you with magic and fire. Usually bosses in the main game of Elden Ring can be defeated with different strategies. The DLC bosses appear to be designed with very specific combat styles in mind and if you can't do that particular style then you're basically screwed.

The DLC bosses also once again are shining a huge spotlight on the problems fromsoft games had with their camera controls for many MANY years. Bayle for example as a big dragon has a singular lock-on point which is his head. Now he has attack moves where he jumps on you or moves towards which puts his head behind your character once the attack has landed. As a result if you lock on your character will turn around to face Bayle's head. When he attacks though he will do so with his claws that are on his body and because you turned your back on those claws even if you put your shield up Bayle will hit you from behind even though he's basically supposed to stand in front of you.

Now someone will obviously come in and be like "just don't lock on then" but this is not really an option in many fights due to the high movement and attack speed of the bosses and the game constantly trying to move the camera into the direction where you're running to when you aren't locked on.

The problem with the lock-on points and camera as mentioned has existed for many years and it already seriously annoyed me in DS3 for example in phase 1 of the Immortal King (when he sits on his dragon). That boss is not that difficult to be honest but the camera controls make it more difficult as it otherwise would be as you're constantly fighting the camera trying to keep the boss in view to see what he's doing.

Anyway the Elden Ring DLC has various large bosses and due to the increased speed of the fights these large bosses are becoming more and more problematic to handle.

Also getting back to the boss mechanics in general. They seem to have taken the wrong lessons from the main game where instead of creating more methodical and strategic boss fights where clear patterns can be observed and countered (see Godrick, Godfrey - although he's borderline - or Radagan) they seem to focus entirely on spectacle fights like Malenia and Maliketh which I consider to be among the worst bosses in the main game.

Then the fights also seem to be intended to be won without getting hit as various bosses have insta kill attacks. Messmer with his impale kills you even if you're at full health. Rellana with her full moon bomb kills you instantly as well if you fail to dodge the first hit because if the first one hits you then the other two will as well. Most of the major boss fights end within 15 seconds of entering the room because they pull some major attack combo right at the start (Messmer for example going into the air, jumping on you - over 50% health gone if it hits you - and then followed by a fire explosion which also deals about the same => explosion is difficult to time the dodge right). And it's not just me getting literally thrown out of the areana within seconds. I've seen the huge amount of blood spots right at the boss portals. There's a lot of players getting murdered within seconds of a fight starting.

This cannot be considered good design in terms of boss mechanics.

Let's be honest, we had more and more anime bosses since dark souls 3.

[Linfried]

Okay, so after reading a few paragraphs of your long post, I can see that you:

1. Learned how to fight the boss.
2. Refuse to play!

I think everyone here has a problem with what you did on step 2 there. Nice going!

[ElChouv]

Originally posted by Koryiaki:

This honestly reads as "in the last two years I have developed dementia and tanked my hand-eye coordination". Ranalla literally has attack paterns more predictable than crucible knights with 4 attacks at most in a string. She is parryable, guard counterable and extremely dodgeable, you can also easily magic her, personally took her and lion out wit pure faith for funsies.

I think this just speaks to how rigid and stubborn gamers have gotten more than anything about the game, people don't seem to want to learn even simple patterns, or change their stats or even talismans to make a boss easier. I think the real issue is people want a any build can beat anything easily experience and the devs wanted people to think, adapt, and use all of the tools at their disposal.

I don't know, the whole game is designed to build a specialized character and get very familiar with it to be efficient. It doesn't feel like it's made to be that adaptable. For instance respecing is not unlimited, you can rebirth about 10-12 times so there's not a lot of room for experimentation. You can play with weapon infusions and talismans and it doesn"t make that much of a difference, much less than putting more hours learning boss's patterns

[Dr.Acula]

Originally posted by Myrmuz IRL:

All of the "difficult" enemies are designed this, way, it's quite repetitive.

They launch themselves at you while doing long, rapid combos, usually with deliberately weird timing in order to bait a rollcatch.

It becomes very boring. Glad I'm playing a mage, not looking forward to melee character playthrough.

At least the Furnace Golems aren't like that. They do a lot of damage but they're easy enough to deal with.

The final boss phase 2 is insane. I don't even get how you're supposed to damage him. He just keeps attacking.
They're going to nerf him (like radahn).

I'm playing a melee character and for lots of the main bosses it has not been fun. Mostly I switched from using a two-handed sword to one-handing it with the tower shield. For bosses I basically switched to fingershield. I'm just sitting behind the shield watching the attack combos and do a counter once a combo is done.

For Bayle and some other large bosses you can't really block with a shield I pulled out the mimic playing aggro ping pong and whenever the boss doesn't focus me I'll use the special from the dragon slayer large katana which is a projectile attack from a short to medium distance. I got all but one of the major bosses down but it involved a lot of suffering. I hate the Bayle fight even though it looks cool.

That St.Trina skeleton+horse fight also was extremely stupid. Just like that boss there are a lot of other bosses pulling out huge AOE attacks that simply cannot be avoided. That skeleton at the 50-60% pulls out a huge frostflame AOE attack that goes through the whole arena. I tried to go far away => it hit me. I went close and it still hit me even though the animation for the attack wasn't even below me. I tried dodging and it hit me. Jumping? It still hit me. The only thing working to some degree was blocking as it reduced the damage. Still it seems like unavoidable damage and there are other attacks like as well.

I now finally gave up when I reached Radahn phase 2. I have no idea how to deal with all these AOE and other special attacks. I watched a video but I don't see myself pulling off what that player did. It's to much. Just reducing the damage also wouldn't do much because it's still to many attacks and mechanics flying in. And then you have that ability where Miquella pulls you up and gives you a kiss or something like it. Got hit twice and lost the fight. There's not even a visible warning sign of that coming (or it exists and I just can't see it due to all the other stuff happening).

Even in phase 1 Radahn has that gravitation ability that first pulls you in and then he just slashes the area in front of him and triggers a purple colored ground attack at the same time that can't be dodged or jumped over. Blocking also doesn't really work there. It's stupid and way over the top.

Originally posted by Unaire:

2. Refuse to play!

What the hell is that even supposed to mean?

The game gives me a lot of tools to fight the bosses. I pick what I like and use it. If you're telling me I most change the entire tool belt because most of the tools are useless against certain bosses then there is a major problem in terms of mechanical design.

[BlackSunEmpire]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

All of the main bosses I've seen have insanely rapid attack combos with very little breaks in between and barely any time to either recover or damage a boss. The patterns are extremely difficult to read because they are extremely long and there are various similar attacks where it becomes almost impossible to tell them apart and plan accordingly.

Yeah, those are the main issues in Elden Ring's boss design:


Flowchart combos (multiple different combos having the same startup hits but different endings) make it very hard to read and punish combos.

And of course many bosses nonstop looping 10 hit combos, without giving you any attack window in between.


I'm all for difficult boss designs like Gael, Isshin and Midra, but at least make their moves fair to punish, without having to gamble on which moves they use to end their combo string. This is not a 50/50 based fighting game.

The sad thing is, there are too many simps which praise every single gameplay choice Fromsoft does, which totally drowns every form of legit feedback.

So they probably will not listen.

[Linfried]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Originally posted by Myrmuz IRL:

All of the "difficult" enemies are designed this, way, it's quite repetitive.

They launch themselves at you while doing long, rapid combos, usually with deliberately weird timing in order to bait a rollcatch.

It becomes very boring. Glad I'm playing a mage, not looking forward to melee character playthrough.

At least the Furnace Golems aren't like that. They do a lot of damage but they're easy enough to deal with.

The final boss phase 2 is insane. I don't even get how you're supposed to damage him. He just keeps attacking.
They're going to nerf him (like radahn).

I'm playing a melee character and for lots of the main bosses it has not been fun. Mostly I switched from using a two-handed sword to one-handing it with the tower shield. For bosses I basically switched to fingershield. I'm just sitting behind the shield watching the attack combos and do a counter once a combo is done.

For Bayle and some other large bosses you can't really block with a shield I pulled out the mimic playing aggro ping pong and whenever the boss doesn't focus me I'll use the special from the dragon slayer large katana which is a projectile attack from a short to medium distance. I got all but one of the major bosses down but it involved a lot of suffering. I hate the Bayle fight even though it looks cool.

That St.Trina skeleton+horse fight also was extremely stupid. Just like that boss there are a lot of other bosses pulling out huge AOE attacks that simply cannot be avoided. That skeleton at the 50-60% pulls out a huge frostflame AOE attack that goes through the whole arena. I tried to go far away => it hit me. I went close and it still hit me even though the animation for the attack wasn't even below me. I tried dodging and it hit me. Jumping? It still hit me. The only thing working to some degree was blocking as it reduced the damage. Still it seems like unavoidable damage and there are other attacks like as well.

I now finally gave up when I reached Radahn phase 2. I have no idea how to deal with all these AOE and other special attacks. I watched a video but I don't see myself pulling off what that player did. It's to much. Just reducing the damage also wouldn't do much because it's still to many attacks and mechanics flying in. And then you have that ability where Miquella pulls you up and gives you a kiss or something like it. Got hit twice and lost the fight. There's not even a visible warning sign of that coming (or it exists and I just can't see it due to all the other stuff happening).

Even in phase 1 Radahn has that gravitation ability that first pulls you in and then he just slashes the area in front of him and triggers a purple colored ground attack at the same time that can't be dodged or jumped over. Blocking also doesn't really work there. It's stupid and way over the top.

Originally posted by Unaire:

2. Refuse to play!

What the hell is that even supposed to mean?

The game gives me a lot of tools to fight the bosses. I pick what I like and use it. If you're telling me I most change the entire tool belt because most of the tools are useless against certain bosses then there is a major problem in terms of mechanical design.

Batman changes his entire tool belt every time he fights a new opponent.

[Dr.Acula]

Originally posted by Unaire:

Batman changes his entire tool belt every time he fights a new opponent.

He actually couldn't. The writers just make the belt do whatever it needs to do in any given situation. It's often very silly to be honest.

Originally posted by BlackSunEmpire:

I'm all for difficult boss designs like Gael, Isshin and Midra, but at least make their moves fair to punish, without having to gamble on which moves they use to end their combo string. This is not a 50/50 based fighting game.

The sad thing is, there are too many simps which praise every single gameplay choice Fromsoft does, which totally drowns every form of legit feedback.

So they probably will not listen.

I liked the fight against Gael in DS3. I also liked Sister Friede.

The funny aspect is I thought Friede was more difficult than Gael. When I fought him the first time I was easily able to make out his attack patterns and react accordingly. I think it took a couple of attempts but he was very do-able as a boss.

Sister Friede on my first playthough took me hours to win but I never felt like her fight was unfair. She dished out tons of damage if she hits you but it was possible to interrupt her attack combos as she didn't have hyper armor. Also she wasn't nearly as fast in her attack patterns compared to what ER:SotE does.

Unfortunately fromsoft overdid it with their spectacle fights in the expansion. Most bosses are to fast compared to what your character is doing. It seems like the bosses and my character are from different games.

[BlackSunEmpire]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

I liked the fight against Gael in DS3. I also liked Sister Friede.

Gael and Isshin are in my opinion the best bosses Fromsoft has designed so far.
Challenging, but fair to read and punish at the same time.

Their worst bossedesigns are:

- Consort Radahn
- Godskin Duo
- Malenia
- Elden Beast
- Yhorm the Giant (Gimmick Fight)
- Deacons of the Deep (Gimmick Fight)
- Bed of Chaos
- Pinwheel

[LongRatThing]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Looking at the boss fights in Shadow of the Erdtree they look cool from a visual perspective. Seeing the combat animation of Rellana, Messmer or Bayle is kinda cool.

Dealing with the mechanics behind it though is a nightmare.

All of the main bosses I've seen have insanely rapid attack combos with very little breaks in between and barely any time to either recover or damage a boss. The patterns are extremely difficult to read because they are extremely long and there are various similar attacks where it becomes almost impossible to tell them apart and plan accordingly.

Bosses like Rellana also seem to be intentionally designed around forcing the player to use parry because dodging these fast long attack combos is highly unreliable and blocking only works for phase one as in p2 she just starts damaging you with magic and fire. Usually bosses in the main game of Elden Ring can be defeated with different strategies. The DLC bosses appear to be designed with very specific combat styles in mind and if you can't do that particular style then you're basically screwed.

The DLC bosses also once again are shining a huge spotlight on the problems fromsoft games had with their camera controls for many MANY years. Bayle for example as a big dragon has a singular lock-on point which is his head. Now he has attack moves where he jumps on you or moves towards which puts his head behind your character once the attack has landed. As a result if you lock on your character will turn around to face Bayle's head. When he attacks though he will do so with his claws that are on his body and because you turned your back on those claws even if you put your shield up Bayle will hit you from behind even though he's basically supposed to stand in front of you.

Now someone will obviously come in and be like "just don't lock on then" but this is not really an option in many fights due to the high movement and attack speed of the bosses and the game constantly trying to move the camera into the direction where you're running to when you aren't locked on.

The problem with the lock-on points and camera as mentioned has existed for many years and it already seriously annoyed me in DS3 for example in phase 1 of the Immortal King (when he sits on his dragon). That boss is not that difficult to be honest but the camera controls make it more difficult as it otherwise would be as you're constantly fighting the camera trying to keep the boss in view to see what he's doing.

Anyway the Elden Ring DLC has various large bosses and due to the increased speed of the fights these large bosses are becoming more and more problematic to handle.

Also getting back to the boss mechanics in general. They seem to have taken the wrong lessons from the main game where instead of creating more methodical and strategic boss fights where clear patterns can be observed and countered (see Godrick, Godfrey - although he's borderline - or Radagan) they seem to focus entirely on spectacle fights like Malenia and Maliketh which I consider to be among the worst bosses in the main game.

Then the fights also seem to be intended to be won without getting hit as various bosses have insta kill attacks. Messmer with his impale kills you even if you're at full health. Rellana with her full moon bomb kills you instantly as well if you fail to dodge the first hit because if the first one hits you then the other two will as well. Most of the major boss fights end within 15 seconds of entering the room because they pull some major attack combo right at the start (Messmer for example going into the air, jumping on you - over 50% health gone if it hits you - and then followed by a fire explosion which also deals about the same => explosion is difficult to time the dodge right). And it's not just me getting literally thrown out of the areana within seconds. I've seen the huge amount of blood spots right at the boss portals. There's a lot of players getting murdered within seconds of a fight starting.

This cannot be considered good design in terms of boss mechanics.

I ain't reading allat but I agree, the bosses are kinda just move spamming, yet Messmer is great fun as soon as you find out his moveset.

[Demonchaser27]

Agreed. Honestly, for me, boss design already hit beyond the breaking point in the base game. There were some outright poorly designed encounters in that game. And that's not to say FromSoft has never messed up fights before in older games, they have. But instead of learning from that, they just escalated and made the bad even worse. I've said it in a few threads elsewhere, but I am honestly not paying full price (likely not even buying at all) whatever they do next. I was already growing tired of putting up with the bad designs, but the world design and hopes of this game changing things for the better were misguided on my part. It was just more of the same mixed with even worse problems (both in terms of performance and boss design).

So like I mentioned on the subreddit, I'm pretty much going to wait and see for the next game. Problem is open world was really the only place From had left to go (unexplored by them) and given how much I feel they squandered that with their encounter design and mechanics, there really aren't any additional places they have to go. So like I said, pretty much a wrap for me. I'll probably attempt to at least finish this DLC but that's it for me. Sorry, From, just do better in a decade or so. Maybe I'll return when you've listened to some criticism finally. Or maybe one day, we'll have a studio come along that apes the best parts of From and fixes the rest. Would love good world exploration with medium challenge based around the player moveset and balanced properly. And also a leveling system and late game weapons that feel more worth using instead of being designed around just being PVP fodder.

[Yomimori]

Originally posted by Dr.Acula:

Originally posted by Myrmuz IRL:

All of the "difficult" enemies are designed this, way, it's quite repetitive.

They launch themselves at you while doing long, rapid combos, usually with deliberately weird timing in order to bait a rollcatch.

It becomes very boring. Glad I'm playing a mage, not looking forward to melee character playthrough.

At least the Furnace Golems aren't like that. They do a lot of damage but they're easy enough to deal with.

The final boss phase 2 is insane. I don't even get how you're supposed to damage him. He just keeps attacking.
They're going to nerf him (like radahn).

I'm playing a melee character and for lots of the main bosses it has not been fun. Mostly I switched from using a two-handed sword to one-handing it with the tower shield. For bosses I basically switched to fingershield. I'm just sitting behind the shield watching the attack combos and do a counter once a combo is done.

For Bayle and some other large bosses you can't really block with a shield I pulled out the mimic playing aggro ping pong and whenever the boss doesn't focus me I'll use the special from the dragon slayer large katana which is a projectile attack from a short to medium distance. I got all but one of the major bosses down but it involved a lot of suffering. I hate the Bayle fight even though it looks cool.

That St.Trina skeleton+horse fight also was extremely stupid. Just like that boss there are a lot of other bosses pulling out huge AOE attacks that simply cannot be avoided. That skeleton at the 50-60% pulls out a huge frostflame AOE attack that goes through the whole arena. I tried to go far away => it hit me. I went close and it still hit me even though the animation for the attack wasn't even below me. I tried dodging and it hit me. Jumping? It still hit me. The only thing working to some degree was blocking as it reduced the damage. Still it seems like unavoidable damage and there are other attacks like as well.

I now finally gave up when I reached Radahn phase 2. I have no idea how to deal with all these AOE and other special attacks. I watched a video but I don't see myself pulling off what that player did. It's to much. Just reducing the damage also wouldn't do much because it's still to many attacks and mechanics flying in. And then you have that ability where Miquella pulls you up and gives you a kiss or something like it. Got hit twice and lost the fight. There's not even a visible warning sign of that coming (or it exists and I just can't see it due to all the other stuff happening).

Even in phase 1 Radahn has that gravitation ability that first pulls you in and then he just slashes the area in front of him and triggers a purple colored ground attack at the same time that can't be dodged or jumped over. Blocking also doesn't really work there. It's stupid and way over the top.

Originally posted by Unaire:

2. Refuse to play!

What the hell is that even supposed to mean?

The game gives me a lot of tools to fight the bosses. I pick what I like and use it. If you're telling me I most change the entire tool belt because most of the tools are useless against certain bosses then there is a major problem in terms of mechanical design.

About last boss, well i can speak from ng+2 and 360lvl tho.

Maxed hp and stamina, heavy armor, maxed fingerprint shield. Still medium roll. Best physical and magical negation amulets, alexander and that lowering mana usage for weapon skills.
Maxed giant crusher of course with lion claw and maxed "weapon" for incantations.
Flask for dmg negation for 2nd phase.
Maxed mimic.
Golden vow and flame, grant me strenght incantations before arena, recover mana (you should take 12 hp and 2 mp flasks).
Scarlet aeonia.

Summon mimic while you can, heal. Hit him with scarlet aeonia (its awesome against him). Heal because you will get wrecked anyway. Then fight using lion claw ash of war.

Phase one should be short.

Flask and try to get close to him and just shield his aoe. Hit him with scarlet aeonia again. Now its rng if he grab you or mimic or not. Well it's rng if you will be still alive after incantation tbh xD

If you can stand alive you MUST stagger him while he is trying to do sky jump move.

It will one shot you even while maxed out with all these negations active (i tried with even more and it was still one shot).

If staggered, congrats you won...probably.