FromSoft leaning on the one-shot kill aspect of difficulty too much

[Chris1]

Souls games didn't used to have this "one shot can kill you" aspect of their difficulty. They used to have hard bosses, but if you made a few mistakes, you were still in the game, you just had your back against the wall, and that's fine.

It seems like with Elden Ring, they really started to push all in on the "one shot kill" way to ramp up difficulty. It isn't even about the DLC, but the DLC is pretty bad. It seems their default operation for any end game level (Haligtree especially) is just ramp up the damage enemies can dish out up to 11 and have the player killed over any single mistake. This is really why people say in Elden Ring, Vigor is actually the most important stat.

During the DLC it's painfully obvious they are leaning on this as a mechanic to artificially increase the difficulty but unfortunately it also decreases the fun. It used to be possible in Souls games to have extremely difficult bosses that didn't one shot you over any little mistake. Ornstein and Smough & the Bell Gargoyles are great examples of iconic bosses that were extremely difficult without needing to one shot the player. Orphan of Kos is another great example of a DLC boss who was extremely difficult without the one-shot silliness.

Yes, it's possible to die over and over again, hammering away at these DLC bosses until you either figure out how to dodge that one move in that one case, and then repeat the process for their other 20 moves, but it's just not as fan. If this is the way to 'git gud' I think there are obviously some balancing issues that From is just leaning way too much on "lets one shot the player".

Just my opinion, after having cleared a bunch of the DLC (including guys like Messmer & Gaius). My biggest take away from the DLC so far is that it is more frustrating than fun.

[MEOW]

You are absolutely correct. People saying balancing in DLC is good are either spamming mimic tear or are those SL1 challenge run players who now want every single player to play like its SL1 playthrough.

They saw how cheesy mimic was in base game and decided to balance around that which is stupid because they themselves provided this easy mode to appeal to wider audience.

Another issue is that that they wanted this DLC to have progression like base game but because how stats in souls work they cant without absolutely breaking the game so they made Scadutree system which basically removes most RPG aspect of the game and now its just an open world action game like Sekiro. It worked so well in Sekiro because it was a linear game and 90% of the upgrade you get are from killing bosses not from wandering around in large open fairly empty areas.

Compare this to Ringed city DLC, you can access it fairly early, even hardest bosses like Midir and Slave Knight Gael didn't 2 shot you. And the level you decided to do the DLC in made a massive difference,

Also every boss have hyper aggression, massive health pool and insane damage in this DLC. Gone are the days where bosses actually felt different and interesting like Midir being slow and very telegraphed and someone like Sister Friede being hyper aggressive and fast but staggerable.

[Ragna-San]

The base game was already like this.
All the problems that the game had and still have when it launched are even worse in this DLC.
Horrible optimization for PC.
Repetitive content everywhere in the game.
Input reading and input delay.
One shot at all types of quick attacks from enemies.
Extremely poorly balanced in weapons and armor.
Poise non-existent.

[Coinkydink]

it's a military/ fascist mindset applied to gaming.
In real world violence, destroying your opponent before they even become aware of you is the preferred option if honour and fair combat are not among your set of ethics.

The problem is that real world violence is not "fun" whether you win or lose, unless you are a deranged psychopath.
Video games are suppsoed to be about fun but there is a growing culture where they have become substitutes for real life experience and channels for masculine aggression and sociopathy. It's really sad. These are the folks who will viciously verbally attack "casuals" and who require real life assistance.

[Travis Touchdown]

Even though I like the expansion a lot so far, I agree.

I haven't thought about it for a while, but watching some other people play through older Souls games makes it really obvious how much damage and aggression has been dialed up to 11 in ER. Well, aggression is probably on par with stuff like Bloodborne or Sekiro, but the tools to deal with it like the rally system or Sekiro's parry system aren't in place to balance it.

The systems that are in place that feel like the intended counter balance are NPC/player summons and spirit ashes, which are really boring, in my opinion. I'd never shame someone for using a summon, it's just that this counterbalance is to essentially have the boss focus their hyper aggression and damage on something else other than the player rather than some kind of agency the player themselves can develop.

I was thinking of writing up some general tips for the bosses in the DLC that I've beaten (I haven't had too much time to play since I work weekends and have only gotten as far as through the Golden Hippo), but it usually boils down to some form of "get a greatshield, put barricade on it, summon NPC, use an ash spirit summon, then do whatever you want while the boss sends its attacks away from you".

I wish items were more potent. Having a suite of strong defensive items to help players out and get use out of the million collectibles you stumble over would be nice.

[Mister Breaker]

Elden Ring did all of this day 1 and the DLC is just more of that.

[Coinkydink]

"get a greatshield, put barricade on it, summon NPC, use an ash spirit summon, then do whatever you want while the boss sends its attacks away from you".

As it happens this is how I beat the game and probably how most people beat the game because dodging becomes a liability as you progress in this excremental display of tryhardiness of a game.

[SolusiRadikal]

just get more Scadutree Fragment then

[Blue ;3]

Originally posted by MEOW:

People saying balancing in DLC is good are either spamming mimic tear or are those SL1 challenge run players who now want every single player to play like its SL1 playthrough.

I beat the base game SL1 without summons and even I think it's unbalanced

[Fairy f]

All I see is a lack of exploration, just rushing to boss rooms. Git Gud : )

[MEOW]

Originally posted by Fairy ♥♥♥♥♥♥:

All I see is a lack of exploration, just rushing to boss rooms. Git Gud : )

Lack of exploring says people who like wandering around in empty open spaces. DLC is a huge downgrade in open world compared to base game. There is literally nothing to do in red and blue zones except re used mini bosses from base game. I ran through the areas like 5 time each hugging every sides, searching every corner and all I found was a cave and a river path that ends at a giant lobster. They didn't even bothered to put camps there.

[CourtesyFlush09]

I've been playing the DLC for quite some time now and I am enjoying it. It's just more of the base game, BUT man are they doubling down on the super aggressive enemies with seemingly infinite stamina and attacks.

I find myself more often than not just landing a single attack and then rolling away for my life. It was not this bad in the base game and it drags the entire DLC down.

[River]

While I am enjoying the DLC, it is definitely overtuned.

I'm starting to wonder if the Scadutree Blessings are bugged.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Originally posted by Ragna-San:

The base game was already like this.
All the problems that the game had and still have when it launched are even worse in this DLC.
Horrible optimization for PC.
Repetitive content everywhere in the game.
Input reading and input delay.
One shot at all types of quick attacks from enemies.
Extremely poorly balanced in weapons and armor.
Poise non-existent.

I agree. It's like they didn't learn much from the base game or listen to feedback. I'm getting constant micro-stutters on my 4080 and frame drops when many effects are on screen.

The Scadutree fragment system seems like a last-minute implementation to offset over-leveled players. It kinda just sucks. These are my biggest gripes so far.

[Nedbrytar-Yngve]

sorry lil bro, you're not allowed to be negative about from soft games.

[Firellius]

The expansion has a lot of good going for it in places, too, but the entire continent being One-shot-ville is its biggest drawback by far. Probably followed closely by some abhorrent boss designs like Gaius.

I finished Mother Mertyr earlier, and it's such a mixed bag. On one hand, she's got some attacks that are really fun and satisfying to doge, and then she's got a bunch of BS that I just ended up having to face-tank because there just IS no way to dodge it.

There's great content in the DLC, like the new weapon classes and sorceries that actually manage to shake up the basic pew-pew meta (Haven't tried the incants yet), but the combat and bosses are dreadful. Not helped by the Scadutree Blessing effectively dumpstering your stats until you earn them back through the most opaque fetch quest ever.