WTF is this backlash, due DLC being hard? Are u serious?

[JERRY]

DLCs for DS1, DS2, DS3, and BB are much harder than the original games. Why is this a surprise for many players?

Artificial difficulty? Video games are artificial by nature. Also, go play Ringed City before telling me about "2 shotting you and being tanky АF". It seems everyone has forgotten Darkeater Midir.

[JellyPuff]

What are you talking about? Most negative reviews complain about the performance and optimization (or the lack thereof) and not the difficulty.

I guess with FromSoft games being massively popular mainstream games, elitist need to bend reality a little, to get their kicks now.
I'm sorry, that may have been too harsh, what i've meant to say is, that of course you are the main gamer of all games and the realest gamer of all time and all games are only made, because of YOU. Thank YOU.

[ritzmax72]

Can u guys stop watching E-Celebs?

[Sayo]

İlk olarak UrbanNoodles tarafından gönderildi:

Boss mechanics and using items are completely different things. And in fact, I prefer the lack of Scadu use, so that point is moot. If I can beat Messmer with level 0 blessing, naked, and 2 scorpions, there is no balancing issue. Only skill issue.

See most people have a thing called "respect for their own time". Sure you can spend hours upon hours learning to do any fight no hit all while doing chip damage but the majority isn't going to find that fun. People like a sense of progression, getting stronger, being able to survive more than one hit. And at the point they enter the DLC they're more than likely at a point where they're high leveled but the DLC makes them feel regressed until they interact with the blessings.

[GodfatherPlunger]

yeah, its just like ringed city for dark souls 3 and quite refreshing to not beat bosses first try.

[UrbanNoodles]

İlk olarak Sayo tarafından gönderildi:

See most people have a thing called "respect for their own time". Sure you can spend hours upon hours learning to do any fight no hit all while doing chip damage but the majority isn't going to find that fun. People like a sense of progression, getting stronger, being able to survive more than one hit. And at the point they enter the DLC they're more than likely at a point where they're high leveled but the DLC makes them feel regressed until they interact with the blessings.

I have stated this previously, but I have yet to find any mob or boss that takes longer than 5 minutes to defeat. This obviously means the attempt that kills it. Flame from Halo, who I was just speaking to, also said the only enemy that is extremely tanky is the Wickermen. I bring him and his anecdote up because I have not fought a Wickerman yet, but I also have not come across anything that was overly tanky. The devs aren't asking you to do a no hit run, that is player specific and I only mentioned them because they will be at a higher skill level than other players, and just giving them a DLC that a fresh spawn can tackle wouldn't give justice to the title. Respect for time doesn't exist in a game you can stop and resume at will. Just because you don't down a boss after a session, doesn't mean your time was disrespected. It means you get more sessions for your money. In a sense, losing is a good thing. If people like progression and getting stronger, what's the problem? Is that not what they are doing when they defeat the boss, gain more Scadus, and eventually beat the DLC?

[rabureta]

İlk olarak UrbanNoodles tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sayo tarafından gönderildi:

See most people have a thing called "respect for their own time". Sure you can spend hours upon hours learning to do any fight no hit all while doing chip damage but the majority isn't going to find that fun. People like a sense of progression, getting stronger, being able to survive more than one hit. And at the point they enter the DLC they're more than likely at a point where they're high leveled but the DLC makes them feel regressed until they interact with the blessings.

I have stated this previously, but I have yet to find any mob or boss that takes longer than 5 minutes to defeat. This obviously means the attempt that kills it. Flame from Halo, who I was just speaking to, also said the only enemy that is extremely tanky is the Wickermen. I bring him and his anecdote up because I have not fought a Wickerman yet, but I also have not come across anything that was overly tanky. The devs aren't asking you to do a no hit run, that is player specific and I only mentioned them because they will be at a higher skill level than other players, and just giving them a DLC that a fresh spawn can tackle wouldn't give justice to the title. Respect for time doesn't exist in a game you can stop and resume at will. Just because you don't down a boss after a session, doesn't mean your time was disrespected. It means you get more sessions for your money. In a sense, losing is a good thing. If people like progression and getting stronger, what's the problem? Is that not what they are doing when they defeat the boss, gain more Scadus, and eventually beat the DLC?

hasn't even fought a furnace golem, one of the first big encounters in the dlc
doesn't even know they're called furnace golems
thinks he has any idea what the overall tuning of the dlc is like

[Witch ~]

The Bosses in this DLC are utter overtuned and this is simply a FACT. None of the souls DLCs came even close to that. Hell the endgame of Elden Ring didnt even get close to anything like that. This isnt fun, its just bad and needs serious fixing. Atleast fix the absolute bloated HPs because bloodyhell even the dungeon bosses have a trillion HP

[Passier Reis]

I thought we were supposed to find the scuba thingies first before slapping hands with the big bosses? At least that's what Ive been doing so far

[Witch ~]

İlk olarak The Mad Engineer tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak milk FIXTF2 tarafından gönderildi:

the problem is that its pretty much artificial difficulty. the only reason its hard is due to everything 2 shotting you and being tanky as ♥♥♥♥. the dlcs for the other games were hard but (almost) never unfair

If you explore and find enough scadutree fragments it becomes significantly better. So far only one of the main bosses was able to 2 shot me, and only with a rare attack.

Yeah and thats a problem. Nobody wants to explore a whole samey lookin map for some tiny item. Its such a weird feature and makes no sense.

[rabureta]

İlk olarak Witch ~ tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak The Mad Engineer tarafından gönderildi:

If you explore and find enough scadutree fragments it becomes significantly better. So far only one of the main bosses was able to 2 shot me, and only with a rare attack.

Yeah and thats a problem. Nobody wants to explore a whole samey lookin map for some tiny item. Its such a weird feature and makes no sense.

Especially when you reach the final boss, have all that narrative tension built up and... nope. Time to find that elevator you missed somewhere in the entire world!

[UrbanNoodles]

İlk olarak rabureta tarafından gönderildi:

hasn't even fought a furnace golem, one of the first big encounters in the dlc
doesn't even know they're called furnace golems
thinks he has any idea what the overall tuning of the dlc is like

They are very obviously optional and not meant to fight straight out of the gate. Even if you tried, you would immediately come to the same conclusion flame from Halo did - see how tanky they are, see how they one shot, and likely go get Scadus and do other things first. Many people have fought straight up to Messmer without fighting one. I have beaten the DLC an hour ago. So yes, I do know what the tuning of the DLC is like. You would have a better argument by saying I don't know how bad it is because I play naked, and you get one shot in full armor. Just because one optional boss, that from the loot table has subpar tears as rewards, is tankier than everything else in the game, that doesn't mean the DLC is overtuned. It is a Wickerman the same way a Rotten Stray is Dog and a Monstrous Crow is Dino Bird. The name is irrelevant, you still know exactly what is being referred to. Do you want to add anything to this discussion or attempt to sling ad hominems?

Edit: I just killed one. I take back what I said. They are not tanky like flame from Halo said. Their legs are but their face isn't. You just put on Flame Protect Me and attack the feet while double jumping when they stomp, which has a rhythm to it. When they fall over you do extremely massive critical damage to their face. It takes more than 1/3rd of their health in one hit. Takes less than 5 minutes. Is this your idea of overtuned, rabureta? A mob that loses well over 1/3rd of its health in one hit, and has the majority of its damage negated by a single incantation?

İlk olarak Passier Reis tarafından gönderildi:

I thought we were supposed to find the scuba thingies first before slapping hands with the big bosses? At least that's what Ive been doing so far

Do you mean the Scadutree Blessings? They aren't needed but they will certainly make things much easier. I read you can acquire 10 of them before attempting a single boss, which is enough for level 4.

[flame from Halo]

İlk olarak UrbanNoodles tarafından gönderildi:

My first attempt, I said out loud, wtf are they thinking. Which is part of why I disbelieve and argue against most people that say there is an issue with balancing. Because shortly after saying that, I found rolling in to him and often times standing directly under him to be a solid way to avoid most of his damage, which allowed me to just spam Rolling Shock (an extremely OP ash of war for perfumes). He is an amazing roll catcher if you roll in any other direction. I didn't break his poise at all except for when he went into cutscene, which was always a bummer, but at the same time I do more damage with a full hit Rolling Shock than a critical with my Misericorde anyways. I watched some streamers fight him after I beat him and I did think it was extremely strange that such a skinny dude could be so sturdy against a max strength 2h hammer with lions claw.

Yea, about 5 tries in I found rolling away was near useless and side to side(preferably towards him) was the best way to dodge attacks, yet one of the biggest problems is there is SOOOO much visual garbage with that boss. Phase 2 is especially egregious with so much on screen that it would be near-impossible to tell where the boss was without lockon. I like the design visually and the combos are really cool, just wish he could be staggered more than once each fight or had less visual clutter with smaller snakes/fewer flames. I helped my friend with Mogh the other day and, while he has quite a bit of clutter with all of his blood-flame moves, it rarely gets to the point where I have trouble navigating the boss fight or arena.

İlk olarak UrbanNoodles tarafından gönderildi:

I'll have to go fight a wickerman to comment on him more. But it looks like a sponge that oneshots so I will believe you. I never fought one because I doubted they drop anything worth my time, which is one of the main things I would say is bad about this DLC. I'll get into that in a bit. But thank you for informing me they drop tears. I need to start killing them now that I know they actually drop something. Though if they are as bad as you say, maybe I'll just look into which specific ones I should target.
...
I can't stop agreeing with this point enough. This is why I haven't fought a Wickerman. The maps are way too barren, of both good items and enemies worth fighting. I can run for 10 minutes straight and only see deer or reskinned pointless enemies. There are barely any buildings/points of interest in the game with so much travel space between them, and when you do get to them... the reward is a weapon you probably don't care about, a very low amount of souls, or a +6 smithing stone. It makes it difficult for me to want to fight anything, because it's almost never rewarding. This is probably the strongest case for backlash out of any in this thread.

Let me know what you think afterwards. At this point they aren't difficult for me, just tedious. I know I will spend a ton of time just hitting their legs, and if I greed for 1 too many hits I have to remount Torrent(if I get hit by the first stomp in the double stomp move I will be stagger locked to death). But as we mentioned, they suffer from the fact they drop too little for the effort they require, since most of the tonics are not useful for a specific play-style. I also agree with the nature point as well, as I think about 75% of all eagles/deer I have spotted in ER were in this dlc alone.

İlk olarak UrbanNoodles tarafından gönderildi:

I play naked with 2 scorpion charms...

...even if they have to run around pressing A for a bit first.

I respect that playstyle, glass cannon is how my character was before re-statting for the DLC. I go tank-strength my first run of content because I feel it is the most personal way to fight bosses[pizza wheel+medium->heavy armor]. Getting in close with heavy swings is a way to force me to really learn the openings of bosses and their melee moves/how to counter them while still giving me health enough to not instantly die for 1 mistake(usually). Before my re-stat I was dual wielding int-katanas with sorceries, but when I played it on my 2nd play-through of the core game I found that just about every boss was a joke since I could just spam dodge away and wait for an opening just to cast a few chip-spells. Certain bosses I never even saw some of their attacks, because they rarely caught up to the half-naked sorcerer spamming glint-stone pebble every .3 seconds. I don't shame people for their play-style, but I feel most ranged builds/shield builds never make you actually fight the boss by denying the bosses' desired punishes, but ER design has leaned far more towards bosses not needing you to come to them and having a wider engagement range. I still think it is a major flaw that I had hoped FromSoft would remedy since release(a good example would be fighting Elden beast as melee before Torrent was actual suffering).

I also absolutely understand their desire to challenge people who have played ER a **ton** but I think there could have been better ways to go about it. Look at DS3's dlc, while Ashes was very short and Ringed City had some truly awful mechanics, they both gave very satisfyingly difficult bosses that all gave the players a great amount of breathing room(even Midir would give several full seconds for players to hit him during most attacks). I understand your point that the scadus are better for players who want a softer version of the DLC, but I think that the scadus frags should have been more heavily centered around clearing content. If you can't fight a main boss then go explore! That was the main appeal of the game to many with Morgott(too difficult then just go explore and level up). I feel it would be much better if fewer scadu fragments were required but -all- fragments were received from dungeon bosses or open world bosses. It would give people more incentive to explore past finding items and also give them time between boss attempts to compartmentalize/think of a strategy. Better yet they could have the dlc be baseline difficulty but do as DS2 did and give new/harder enemies for people on NG+, or give bonus content for beating certain bosses with charms that increase player damage(there is one in ever ds game, why not actually put them to use for once?). I just think that the baseline damage for the DLC is off for those in melee combat, but will absolutely align with most people in this comment section when it comes to my int-mage replay saying 'lmao he never hit me' 'git gud'.

İlk olarak UrbanNoodles tarafından gönderildi:

Thank your formatting and presentation, not me. Not many people want to discuss, only demand and tell. You get what you ask for and you asked for civility.

One of the main problems I am faced with when discussing this dlc is that it is MORE than worth the price if you enjoy ER. There is so much content it is actually absurd, even considering the price tag, no souls game with ALL their dlc combined has come close to the amount of playtime Shadows gives. That being said, I find is that so much of my time spent playing it doesn't feel as enjoyable or compact as any other souls game, riding around on Torrent, searching for hidden paths to new areas, grabbing far off items, fighting open world bosses, all of these things are about 66% of my playtime in Shadows and I really do not care for it at all. While the amount of content is worth the price tag, the size is really not worth my enjoyment.

[Eli]

We're locking this thread as it has devolved into non-productive argument. Thanks for your understanding.