Your understanding of the Crucible?

[Bonham]

There is a ton of things about this game that I dont understand, but for some reason this one is annoying more.

As I understand it, the crucible was the Erdtree before it got possessed but the Greater Will, the original Erdtree had followers and Knights (the Crucible Knights) but they all got banished, killed or jailed by the golden order because they just stood in the way and wanted people to forgive that there was a different creed before the Erd Tree was made the Greater Will's ♥♥♥♥♥.

But it seems that there is some connection between the Crucible and the Crucible Knights and the dragons, but I dont understand it.

[Lucifer_]

Crucible was where all life came from in the time before the erdtree. Golam eyed queen was the marika of that time serving some other outer god. Placidusax was her consort similar to Godfrey for marika. When greater will came to lands b/w, maliketh defeated gloam eyed queen and Godfrey defeated placidusax.

[WhateverWorks]

The Lands Between was ruled over in the past by at least one entity other than the Greater Will. This is a place with a whole lot of forces all vying for dominion at the same time. As far as I understand it, before the Greater Will took over there was an outer-God assciated with the dragons that was in power. This God isn't named directly (I don't think?), but Placidusax (spelling?) was either that God's "Marika" or that God's "Elden Lord".

As for the Crucible, it's described as "primordial". I took it to be much older than the Erdtree and probably the source of even the Outer Gods themselves along with everything else. I mean that's basically what primordial means.

Also, I don't know a ton of the lore behind the Omen's but I do remember something about the Crucible being what spawned them.

[Zehm]

The Crucible is a Primordial form of the Erd Tree. The Greater Will inhabited it before the Erd Tree existed. There seems to be three ages as far as I can tell:

The Age of the Root - When Plasidusax was Elden Lord
The Age of the Crucible - When Godfey was Elden Lord
The Age of the Erd Tree - When Radagon was Elden Lord

The Erd Tree is a branch of the Crucible that was cultivated by the Golden Order. All the humans in the Lands Between are born from the Erd Tree, but when it was still the Crucible, the human form wasn't set in stone. People like the Crucible Knights still retain Dragon and beastial aspects because the Crucible was a Melding Pot of creation. The Golden Order (the descendants of the Crucible Knights and Tarnished) went on the war path and ethnically cleansed the divergent forms of humanity. Then, when their conquest was complete, they gave Godfrey and the other Tarnished the boot and set up Radagon as the Elden Lord for their newly purified race, beginning the age of the Erd Tree. However, because the Erd Tree is sick from Death Root, the former genetics of the Crucible are starting to become more prominent, resulting in the births of Chimeras, which are shunned for their impurity and given the names of Misbegotten and Omen.

ED: You've probably seen some statues in the game depicting a man stood atop a Stump with a golden flower growing out of it. The Stump is the Crucible, and the golden Flower is the genetic linage of the Golden Order, AKA the Erd Tree.

[Bonham]

Thank you all for your answers! But wasnt the Greater Will an outer God that was born outside the planet and stays there, trying to control Elden Ring's Planet from afar?

[Zehm]

Originally posted by Bonham:

Thank you all for your answers! But wasnt the Greater Will an outer God that was born outside the planet and stays there, trying to control Elden Ring's Planet from afar?

It is. But so are all the people as they wouldn't exist without the Greater Will. It's the seed that started it all and people are the fruit.

[WhateverWorks]

The Greater Will did not always have control over the Lands Between, and the Elden Ring did not always exist. I don't think it's ever specifically said that the Greater Will is far off in terms of physical location, at least that wasn't how I took it. Like the Rot God currently manifesting itself all over Caelid and underneath the Royal Academy, the Greater Will exists "outside" of reality itself.

[WhateverWorks]

Originally posted by Zehm:

It is. But so are all the people as they wouldn't exist without the Greater Will. It's the seed that started it all and people are the fruit.

When/where is that actually stated? Not saying you're wrong, just seems to contradict things we know for sure. We know for a 100% fact that the Lands Between existed before the Greater Will was involved, and we know for a 100% fact there were sentient living beings there before the Greater Will as well. The Tarnished specifically are only created afterward? Sounds like two fingers propaganda if you think about it, because the Tarnished are able to continue existing even if the Ring is not restored in a way that benefits the Greater Will.

Also the Omen's aren't a product of the Greater Will, they're a product of the Crucible, which is the reason they're hated.

[twiggy]

the word crucible implies a tool created for a specific purpose

[WhateverWorks]

Originally posted by twiggy:

the word crucible implies a tool created for a specific purpose

It's literally referred to as "primordial".
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/primordial

"Existing in, or persisting from the beginning"
"Earliest formed in the growth of an individual or organ"
"fundamental, primary"

I don't think they accidentally used the word primordial without knowing what it means. The crucible is the thing that does the creating, including the creation of things like the Greater Will.

[Detective Costeau]

My understanding is that it lets me stab people with a big horn.

[Zehm]

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

When/where is that actually stated? Not saying you're wrong, just seems to contradict things we know for sure. We know for a 100% fact that the Lands Between existed before the Greater Will was involved, and we know for a 100% fact there were sentient living beings there before the Greater Will as well.

The only living being in the game that aren't tied to the Greater Will are the Natural Born of the Void. If there were any sentient inhabitants of the Lands Between before it's arrival, it would be the Alabastor/Onyx Lords, Crystalions and I guess those Digger guys too.

The Tarnished specifically are only created afterward? Sounds like two fingers propaganda if you think about it, because the Tarnished are able to continue existing even if the Ring is not restored in a way that benefits the Greater Will.

The Tarnished were Godfrey's boys and the primogenitors of the Golden Order. As for the Greater Will not caring what comes next, it probably doesn't. The point of the game is to become the next Elden Lord and usher in a new age with a new type of people. So long as the Greater Will continues to exist, it doesn't care what form it takes.

Also the Omen's aren't a product of the Greater Will, they're a product of the Crucible, which is the reason they're hated.

They ARE a product of the Greater Will, just like Beastmen, Dragons and Crucible Knights are. It's the Golden Order that hates them because they want to purge those recessive genetics from their lineage. They are called Omen because they are "Omens" of the lineage failing.

[WhateverWorks]

Dude, if you're going to ignore things the game flat out says that's fine. Can't force you to not cherry pick lore to ignore. But the game is pretty explicit about the Greater Will being more like an invading force that is not at all native to the Lands Between. We know for an absolute 100% fact that the dragons were present in the LB before the Greater Will sent the Beast/Ring. There's also enough evidence to believe that the Greater Will isn't even involved at all anymore.

But 100% fact stated by the game, the Dragons existed in LB before the GW was ever involved. Also, the Omens are specifically stated to be sourced from the Crucible. But whatever. I don't care enough about this conversation to be in a cycle of "no you're wrong". These questions are all gone over in the wiki.

[brago90]

The crucible is the source of all primordial animal life (In discarded content, mention is made of a second crucible that was the origin of all primordial plant life and that was to be related to Miranda (it was planned that she would be a boss)). It is known that it existed before the Erdtree but its specific location is not clear, just as the origin of the Erdtree is not clear.

The whole pre-Erdtree chronology is a bit muddy so it's not very clear when things happened and which ones overlapped.