Seemless CoOP mod, best thing ever or circumventing the game's design?

[Krystal]

I personally don't use it but its apparently one of the most popular mods in the community, that said I think its worth discussing if it should be allowed or not by looking at its pros and cons.

Pros:

1. Lets players co-op with others without worry of being invaded by sweatlords looking to ruin a PVE player's day.(the kind of player who runs meta builds and sees coop players as "lesser skilled" than them)

2. Most invasions end with the invader being ganked anyways so this lessens the odds of invaders encountering a little timmy host being carried by his max level friends and getting steamrolled by said max level friends while little timmy runs away.

Cons:

1. Goes against the game's original design. By summoning help you are giving permission to be invaded. (As much as I disagree with this statement...its true in a sense)

2. Non-sweatlord Invaders can never find anyone to invade and more often than not, only find sweatlord hosts or gank squads because anyone they would stand a chance against is using the seemless COOP mod.

3. Invasion PVP is pretty much dead because of this mod.

----------------------


I personally believe that this mod is not inherently a bad thing but its having the knock off effect of making the general pvp experience for players like me who like to casually invade in the spirit of miyazaki's original design idea of being a very powerful enemy that a player must overcome ruined because all i ever encounter are sweatlords who kill me in 2-3 hits(I have 39 vigor so its not like i didn't level it) but the problem is that in order to contend with these sweatlords I would have to more or less destroy my build or be forced to level way beyond the popular pvp range.(level 142-150)

So for players like me who like to casually pvp and don't want to go full sweatlord, we suffer as a result of this mod. I understand why players use it, they don't want to be invaded by the big bad red man while having fun co-oping with their friends.(Again, i totally understand this as someone who hates being invaded when i'm just trying to progress through a zone) But that's the risk you take when you summon help, that's been the core design of soulsborne games since DS1 and this mod destroys that design turning the game into a poor pvp experince for anyone except sweatlords who aren't afraid of any invader.

[ressenmacher]

Първоначално публикувано от Phoenix:

Please tell me you have something better than this. Please. Don't be that cringe and embarrassing. DS1 was a notoriously bad port. It required performance tweaks and mods to make it playable. This did not take away from any interaction with others or limit interaction with others. Mod in question there just simply permitted interaction with friends in additon to the base game, that mod did not put me in a private lobby with him. Unlike elden ring.
I was still able to be invaded, invaders had no clue I had any sort of mods/tweaks as it gave no advantages or disadvantages. It just made the game playable from a performance standpoint.

But please. Dig deeper. Find something else. Hope this helps!

The point here is that you don't get to agree to a Dark Souls TaC and mulitplayer mod Dark Souls games, then turn around and tell people they can't multiplayer mod Souls games because the TaC they agreed to says they can't. It's hypocritical - if you really thought that was a valid argument then you would have lived by it.

I think it does also make you look bad to have claimed to never mod multiplayer games, then walk that back with Stellaris, then come find out you were modding DS1, but only because it makes you look hypocritical - there's nothing wrong with the modding that you did, only that you denied and concealed it to try to improve the credibility of your position.

[csand]

Първоначално публикувано от zero:

Първоначално публикувано от Le_Rieur:

I hope FromSoftware gained more profiency in open world formula, because ER is inconsistant too much in PvE (some bosses are just awful).

honestly couldn't disagree more, i always found the open world formula was the best formula yet, it has both a mixture of the megadungeons we all like, and a high amount of content to do and explore.

it'd be nice if caves and graves were a bit more varied, but without the open world we wouldn't of had mini dungeons like the fake-out multi loop grave, which was a lot of fun to discover on my own time

It would be awesome if the dungeons and caves etc randomized when you went to ng+, or through some kind of mechanic like the bonfire ascetic from ds2.
Maybe I'm dating myself here but the original NES Zelda did something like this and it was super cool

[ressenmacher]

Първоначално публикувано от csand:

It would be awesome if the dungeons and caves etc randomized when you went to ng+, or through some kind of mechanic like the bonfire ascetic from ds2.
Maybe I'm dating myself here but the original NES Zelda did something like this and it was super cool

It would be cool. Going further, I think BB's chalice dungeon system would have worked really well for these lore-light places where you go in to kill a bunch of stuff and get money/materials.

[King of Games]

Първоначално публикувано от csand:

Първоначално публикувано от zero:

honestly couldn't disagree more, i always found the open world formula was the best formula yet, it has both a mixture of the megadungeons we all like, and a high amount of content to do and explore.

it'd be nice if caves and graves were a bit more varied, but without the open world we wouldn't of had mini dungeons like the fake-out multi loop grave, which was a lot of fun to discover on my own time

It would be awesome if the dungeons and caves etc randomized when you went to ng+, or through some kind of mechanic like the bonfire ascetic from ds2.
Maybe I'm dating myself here but the original NES Zelda did something like this and it was super cool

That is a cool idea, but you have to be careful. Persona 3 and 4 had randomized dungeons and they all ended up being levels and levels of randomized hallways with different wallpaper , it made the games tedious and sometimes outright boring. It probably can be done, but so far i do prefer hand crafted dungeons

[zero]

Първоначално публикувано от csand:

Първоначално публикувано от zero:

honestly couldn't disagree more, i always found the open world formula was the best formula yet, it has both a mixture of the megadungeons we all like, and a high amount of content to do and explore.

it'd be nice if caves and graves were a bit more varied, but without the open world we wouldn't of had mini dungeons like the fake-out multi loop grave, which was a lot of fun to discover on my own time

It would be awesome if the dungeons and caves etc randomized when you went to ng+, or through some kind of mechanic like the bonfire ascetic from ds2.
Maybe I'm dating myself here but the original NES Zelda did something like this and it was super cool

there is a few mods out there that do something like that, convergence for example make a whole town outside of the south castle, which is fun to do, its very "gamey" but i had a lot of fun playing it.

and of course: randomziers may not fix the layuout, but nothing says fun like turning a corner expecting a zombie and its just a runebear.

[Corona Scurrae]

if invasions were well balanced, required skill, with less cheaters and better netcode, I could perhaps see a vague reason to discuss the mod.

however last time I checked that pristine version of elden ring does not exist and the developers don't care.

picking sides and the response you picked as your answer, proves absolutely nothing

[csand]

Първоначално публикувано от Anoi Hidalgo:

Първоначално публикувано от An Irate Walrus:

The mod endures. Constantly provoking the same circular fights that will *not* result in the mod being taken down

but what if i spam Bamco Support email, will that work?

What will be the death of it, if anything, is the community around it and how they treat Luke the mod creator. I already know it's tiring for the guy and he takes a lot of abuse from all these neckbeards acting like they're paying him for it. Just look at the discussion forums for it on nexus mods. If I were him I'd have told them all to sit and spin ages ago

[Key]

Първоначално публикувано от Le_Rieur:

Първоначално публикувано от Key:

I'm very curious about those weapons, in the trailer it looks like people are straight up comboing with martial arts.

The Bone Fist from DS2 ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w04xT1FUTuI

Oh wow, I guess the concept may actually be the same, just with ER's speed and polish it looks a lot fancier.

[Phoenix]

Първоначално публикувано от ressenmacher:

Първоначално публикувано от Phoenix:

Please tell me you have something better than this. Please. Don't be that cringe and embarrassing. DS1 was a notoriously bad port. It required performance tweaks and mods to make it playable. This did not take away from any interaction with others or limit interaction with others. Mod in question there just simply permitted interaction with friends in additon to the base game, that mod did not put me in a private lobby with him. Unlike elden ring.
I was still able to be invaded, invaders had no clue I had any sort of mods/tweaks as it gave no advantages or disadvantages. It just made the game playable from a performance standpoint.

But please. Dig deeper. Find something else. Hope this helps!

The point here is that you don't get to agree to a Dark Souls TaC and mulitplayer mod Dark Souls games, then turn around and tell people they can't multiplayer mod Souls games because the TaC they agreed to says they can't. It's hypocritical - if you really thought that was a valid argument then you would have lived by it.

I think it does also make you look bad to have claimed to never mod multiplayer games, then walk that back with Stellaris, then come find out you were modding DS1, but only because it makes you look hypocritical - there's nothing wrong with the modding that you did, only that you denied and concealed it to try to improve the credibility of your position.

Again. Feel free to try again. I've clearly explained the differences. Sounds like a skill issue. No wonder you must use the seamless coop. lot of that going round.

the "mod" is a performance tweak. Not any changes to the game itself, the gameplay, the mechanics, nothing. As for the "connect with friend" it was a third party program that essentially opened basically a spoof lan connection which basically allowed a direct connection to them in addition to the main server of the game. Neither of these has any impact on the game mechanically.

Please stop bringing up stellaris. it's actually starting to be painful the amount of cringe.

I haven't modded multiplayer games. I have modded singleplayer games. To me stellaris is a primarily singleplayer game. it's not persistently online with mechanics to interact consistently with people on a huge pool of players but again I tire of explaining the differences. I refuse to do so any further.

Correct. There is nothing wrong with the modding I HAVE done because I didn't lessen anyones experience or change core multiplayer mechanics that have a negative impact on other peoples games. So, please. keep trying. Try again :D Thanks.

[An Irate Walrus]

Първоначално публикувано от Anoi Hidalgo:

Първоначално публикувано от An Irate Walrus:

The mod endures. Constantly provoking the same circular fights that will *not* result in the mod being taken down

but what if i spam Bamco Support email, will that work?

Nah. Especially if you then make crap up to support a "my uncle works at Nintendo" argument.

Both Bamco and From have made clear by their silence and inaction on this front that they're not inclined to force the mod off the market. Unless and until they change their minds, spamming this forum with "I'm just asking kweschuns about der mod dat always provokes rage-strokes kn all parties" accomplishes absolutely nothing apart from providing damning evidence of a lack of fulfillment in the lives of the folks who keep stoking the flames.

From doesn't read this forum. If they did, we'd have some evidence of it over two years after launch; unlike Bigfoot hunters and alien-abduction-victims selling jars of their "altered" sweat out of a Winnebago near Roswell, we have unimpeachable records of the deafening silence of the one entity who could actually bring about significant change in the context of this argument.

The reality is that we're all just screaming into the void on this topic. And as with the man who declared to the universe his existence, our noise does not enjoin the void to respond--or even notice.

[zero]

Първоначално публикувано от Phoenix:

Please stop bringing up stellaris. it's actually starting to be painful the amount of cringe.

I haven't modded multiplayer games.

for posterity.

steallaris, a completely singleplayer game. /j

[An Irate Walrus]

Първоначално публикувано от csand:

Първоначално публикувано от Anoi Hidalgo:

but what if i spam Bamco Support email, will that work?

What will be the death of it, if anything, is the community around it and how they treat Luke the mod creator. I already know it's tiring for the guy and he takes a lot of abuse from all these neckbeards acting like they're paying him for it. Just look at the discussion forums for it on nexus mods. If I were him I'd have told them all to sit and spin ages ago

Capital-Gs in general are the cancer that is slowly choking the life out of the hobby. For all the screaming about mainstreaming, "casuls," and "console peasants," it's the entitled goons who assume they have the right to dictate anything to content creators--be they corporate developers or hobbyist modders--that are driving people from the hobby on both the production and consumption ends of the equation.

And they will never acknowledge that, because that would require the same level of self-reflection that would reveal the sole common denominator in all of their problems and failures.

[zero]

Първоначално публикувано от Phoenix:

Първоначално публикувано от Darkstorm:

You can call people braindead for "not understanding". They understand, but they enjoy their seamless playthroughs more and you can do whole nothing about it.

Correct. I can't. Because people dont understand concequences.

thats the concequince of someone playing a game in a way they enjoy?

i believe its called fun.

also protip: to devs, whose end goal is money, seeing a mod that is making people play is only gonna make them want to do something to earn more money, IE make more dlc.

[An Irate Walrus]

Първоначално публикувано от Phoenix:

Първоначално публикувано от Darkstorm:

You can call people braindead for "not understanding". They understand, but they enjoy their seamless playthroughs more and you can do whole nothing about it.

Correct. I can't. Because people dont understand concequences. But I guess enjoy your 1 dlc and lesser game because of it. I feel like we would have perhaps been on dlc 2 by now if the game had more of a push to be developed and a better logevity. active game development and consistent updates dropped the moment the mod came out, to me thats very coincidental. But you do you. Hope you enjoy your lesser overall experience thanks to selfishness :D

Post hoc error.

Correlation is not causation.

This has been your free introductory lesson for Rhet/Comp 101. See the registrar for the full semester course.

[Phoenix]

Първоначално публикувано от zero:

Първоначално публикувано от Phoenix:

Correct. I can't. Because people dont understand concequences.

thats the concequince of someone playing a game in a way they enjoy?

i believe its called fun.

also protip: to devs, whose end goal is money, seeing a mod that is making people play is only gonna make them want to do something to earn more money, IE make more dlc.

Incorrect. A dev who sees a sharp drop in players and less player interactivity and less long term players are not going to push development for that game. Pvpers keep souls games alive longer. no pvpers=no longevity, no longevity=no dev work.