Seemless CoOP mod, best thing ever or circumventing the game's design?

[Krystal]

I personally don't use it but its apparently one of the most popular mods in the community, that said I think its worth discussing if it should be allowed or not by looking at its pros and cons.

Pros:

1. Lets players co-op with others without worry of being invaded by sweatlords looking to ruin a PVE player's day.(the kind of player who runs meta builds and sees coop players as "lesser skilled" than them)

2. Most invasions end with the invader being ganked anyways so this lessens the odds of invaders encountering a little timmy host being carried by his max level friends and getting steamrolled by said max level friends while little timmy runs away.

Cons:

1. Goes against the game's original design. By summoning help you are giving permission to be invaded. (As much as I disagree with this statement...its true in a sense)

2. Non-sweatlord Invaders can never find anyone to invade and more often than not, only find sweatlord hosts or gank squads because anyone they would stand a chance against is using the seemless COOP mod.

3. Invasion PVP is pretty much dead because of this mod.

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I personally believe that this mod is not inherently a bad thing but its having the knock off effect of making the general pvp experience for players like me who like to casually invade in the spirit of miyazaki's original design idea of being a very powerful enemy that a player must overcome ruined because all i ever encounter are sweatlords who kill me in 2-3 hits(I have 39 vigor so its not like i didn't level it) but the problem is that in order to contend with these sweatlords I would have to more or less destroy my build or be forced to level way beyond the popular pvp range.(level 142-150)

So for players like me who like to casually pvp and don't want to go full sweatlord, we suffer as a result of this mod. I understand why players use it, they don't want to be invaded by the big bad red man while having fun co-oping with their friends.(Again, i totally understand this as someone who hates being invaded when i'm just trying to progress through a zone) But that's the risk you take when you summon help, that's been the core design of soulsborne games since DS1 and this mod destroys that design turning the game into a poor pvp experince for anyone except sweatlords who aren't afraid of any invader.

[zab]

pros: I don't have to play the game twice/thrice if I want to play with friends
that's enough for me

[Key]

I don't understand why the default position isn't:

I don't care what others do with their game as long as they aren't cheating in multiplayer.

[King of Games]

It gets rid of all the stupid fog walls and resummoning bs. Its the only reason i still play the game, otherwise like DS3 I wouldve just stopped after beating the game once or twice

[Krystal]

Originally posted by Key:

I don't understand why the default position isn't:

I don't care what others do with their game as long as they aren't cheating in multiplayer.

From a point of view, this mod IS CHEATING because its circumventing a core mechanic of the game.

[mpcgannon]

Originally posted by deathsia:

...if it should be allowed or not...

wut?

[Steel]

Originally posted by Key:

I don't understand why the default position isn't:

I don't care what others do with their game as long as they aren't cheating in multiplayer.

The argument is that the existence of the mod takes these players out of the intended multiplayer pool. That if the mod didn't exist, in order for them to co-op, they'd *need* to be exposed to invasions, as by design. The mod allows them to circumvent this design.

The effect of the mod on the experience of invading has been undeniable, even before booting the game you'll notice that for every single thread or question where someone is asking about coop or complaining about invasions, the responses are always linking them to this mod so they can get a "better co-op experience". That's where the animosity towards it comes from, it warped how players engage with the game on PC and that does affect the overall multiplayer experience of those NOT using the mod.

[csand]

Doesn't matter. It's not like the relative handful of people using it are having any effect in the vanilla game.

Give the # of owners of the game on Steam bs the # of unique downloads of the mod, we can safely say that at most 5-10% of Elden Ring's "current players" on steam are using the mod at any given time.

There are still tons of coop and invasions. Let em play how they want, if they want WoW-souls they can have it

[Phoenix]

Personally. I loved invading. It WAS a fun part of the game, and souls games in general, while less of a concern in Elden Ring. This sort of mod impacts others and their enjoyment and ability to experience the game.

Older games had convenants which could only be progressed by invading, if this was still present you effectively kill this mechanic.

I chimed in on this before.

Invading and being invaded is part of the game, if you use a mod to get rid of that aspect you deny yourself the full experience. if invaders trouble you it is purely YOUR skill issue. In which case, why you playing the game?

It's like playing playing dodgeball and making a rule that the enemy team can't hit you as that isn't fun for you. You only care about your own enjoyment on a multiplayer aspect game? Kinda selfish.

I would say this mod impacted the longevity of this game. It took essentially 2 years for a dlc to drop. Previous games had multiple huge dlc's by now. Like it or not pvpers keep the longevity and replayability alive for games like this. No pvp=no longevity, typical players will finish the game once maybe twice then uninstall and not touch till dlc comes. Me and many others stopped trying after invasions took absurd amount of time to find, wasn't worth our time if people needed safety blankets despite having huge advantages against invaders already.

[mpcgannon]

Originally posted by csand:

Doesn't matter. It's not like the relative handful of people using it are having any effect in the vanilla game.

There are still tons of coop and invasions. Let em play how they want, if they want WoW-souls they can have it

As an addendum, nobody knows what decisions are discussed at FS. I feel certain that they won't change because, despite a Steam forum, everyone wins. There ARE still randos to co-op with. There ARE still invasions. And players using the mod still bought the game at no additional cost to FS.

[Malthar]

Originally posted by deathsia:

Originally posted by Key:

I don't understand why the default position isn't:

I don't care what others do with their game as long as they aren't cheating in multiplayer.

From a point of view, this mod IS CHEATING because its circumventing a core mechanic of the game.

If an appealing set of mechanics for my multiplayer game comes at the price of the random ball aches of invaders, Ill gladly trade any day.

[zab]

Originally posted by csand:

Doesn't matter. It's not like the relative handful of people using it are having any effect in the vanilla game.

There are still tons of coop and invasions. Let em play how they want, if they want WoW-souls they can have it

this
why do people cry so much about it or feel threaten by it when it barely affects the rest of the online playerbase

[csand]

Originally posted by mpcgannon:

Originally posted by csand:

Doesn't matter. It's not like the relative handful of people using it are having any effect in the vanilla game.

There are still tons of coop and invasions. Let em play how they want, if they want WoW-souls they can have it

As an addendum, nobody knows what decisions are discussed at FS. I feel certain that they won't change because, despite a Steam forum, everyone wins. There ARE still randos to co-op with. There ARE still invasions. And players using the mod still bought the game at no additional cost to FS.

Yep. Exactly. From doesn't support mods but they don't not support them either. If it was causing a real impact they might reconsider. Who knows, maybe the expansion will introduce seamless play, then everyone truly wins 👍👍 (we can dream)

[Phoenix]

I just never understand the logic. "let me buy this game from a franchise known for difficulty and invasions and pvp and boss fights and coop, but it's too hard for me and my feelings, let me just put on my safety blanket and only allow certain people to play"

Why play the game? Why buy it? You should know what you're signing up for when you buy it. Crying about it instead of doing what essentially is the core aspect of souls games which is dying and getting better and improving and learning from YOUR mistakes is the entire point of the game. You may as well just stick on god mode as "bosses are too hard, it ruins my fun"

People's stupidity baffles me, truely.

[csand]

Originally posted by zab:

Originally posted by csand:

Doesn't matter. It's not like the relative handful of people using it are having any effect in the vanilla game.

There are still tons of coop and invasions. Let em play how they want, if they want WoW-souls they can have it

this
why do people cry so much about it or feel threaten by it when it barely affects the rest of the online playerbase

And let's be honest, a lot of these people are gonna alt-f4 anyways then wonder why after the 10th alt-f4 "multiplayer is dead"

(the game tracks alt-f4s, btw, and it is a metric used in matchmaking . Poor sportsmanship has repercussions)

[Malthar]

Originally posted by Anoi Hidalgo:

Originally posted by Phoenix:

I just never understand the logic. "let me buy this game from a franchise known for difficulty and invasions and pvp and boss fights and coop, but it's too hard for me and my feelings, let me just put on my safety blanket and only allow certain people to play"

Why play the game? Why buy it? You should know what you're signing up for when you buy it. Crying about it instead of doing what essentially is the core aspect of souls games which is dying and getting better and improving and learning from YOUR mistakes is the entire point of the game. You may as well just stick on god mode as "bosses are too hard, it ruins my fun"

People's stupidity baffles me, truely.

what franchise? Elden Ring is the only game in its series atm

Every sensible person understands that its part of the "Dark Souls" Franchise, same as Bloodborne and Demon Souls