Lore theory

[mpcgannon]

I'm not smart so I shoot for low hanging fruit.
Messmer "the impaler" clearly references Vlad the impaler aka Vlad Dracul.
1. Some consider Vlad a Christian hero vs Ottomans. Christian = relevant
2. Dracul is a title granted as being a member of the order of the dragon. Messmer has a dragon eye. The order was also Christian.
3. When his older brother died, Vlad became eligible for the throne. Messmer says something about something related in the trailer.

So off the bat Messmer ( Vlad ) fought Newmans ( I'm guessing they = Ottomans ) in favor of the Erdtree ( Christianity ). During which he became famous for his ruthlessness.

Dude is also red with fire and snakes all over. This, through a low hanging christian fruit perspective, is Lucifer, the devil. And in the trailer someone says something about those who don't return to the Erdtree ( heaven ) are killed by Messmer's flame ( hell ).

Thoughts, support, arguments against?

[vamirez]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mpcgannon:

So if we were to do a little cut and paste and move Limgrave up and into the Gulf directly north, we may notice that the space is about the same, maybe a little bigger. So if that's where the DLC is it fits what Miyazaki said.

The DLC seems to be set in a shadow realm version of the Lands Between, i.e. I don't think it has to fit into the existing map and will have a separate map.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mpcgannon:

Yo, remember Dark Souls? And that spot, Darkroot garden and or basin? It was named that because that's where the abyss was from; the root of dark!
Well I JUST realized that we start a game, obsessed with trees, in an area called Limgrave. Lim grave. Limb grave...
What do we make of this? Why would a limb be so significant it essentially gets its own country?

That's just antitree propaganda. Of course limbs are significant! Just ask Treeurnia and Caeleaf.

[McPhesco]

I have a few thoughts and theories on Messmer
1. Radagon’s amber egg of the unborn was a thing before he became a part of Merica
2. If Spirit ash are ash unreturned to the erdtree is that also the land of shadow
3. Messmer could be Melina’s twin or some convoluted form of what a “full blood” gods “shadow” like Maliketh or Blythe are but for Miquella and or Malenia
4. Placidusax god was said to have abandoned him but Malekith killed the gloam eyed queen, she died did not abandon if anything he abandoned her
5. Godrick as Godwin’s son was only bestowed lordship by a boon granted by the shattering, maybe he has a completely different father not qualified for lordship without the boon of destined death being freed

[mpcgannon]

More thoughts:
Marika's past will be explored. Hopefully that means more Gloam eyed queen. And with her and all the sneks we see, let's hope for more god-skin lore too

[Toast]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mpcgannon:

More thoughts:
Marika's past will be explored. Hopefully that means more Gloam eyed queen. And with her and all the sneks we see, let's hope for more god-skin lore too

I think Melina is somehow tied to, Ranni. Maybe she was the off shoot when Ranni denied her godhood. They both have eyes closed, and on opposite ends. Melina only opens hers, when you do the frenzy ending.

[mpcgannon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Toast:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mpcgannon:

More thoughts:
Marika's past will be explored. Hopefully that means more Gloam eyed queen. And with her and all the sneks we see, let's hope for more god-skin lore too

I think Melina is somehow tied to, Ranni. Maybe she was the off shoot when Ranni denied her godhood. They both have eyes closed, and on opposite ends. Melina only opens hers, when you do the frenzy ending.

Ranni or the White witch ( or whatever )?
Ranni being daughter of Radagon was born with that red hair. But when she denied the outer will, she sacrificed her body and was put into the doll. I think the eye is a characteristic of the witch more than Ranni proper.

[cacromwell3113]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mpcgannon:

I'm not smart so I shoot for low hanging fruit.
Messmer "the impaler" clearly references Vlad the impaler aka Vlad Dracul.
1. Some consider Vlad a Christian hero vs Ottomans. Christian = relevant
2. Dracul is a title granted as being a member of the order of the dragon. Messmer has a dragon eye. The order was also Christian.
3. When his older brother died, Vlad became eligible for the throne. Messmer says something about something related in the trailer.

So off the bat Messmer ( Vlad ) fought Newmans ( I'm guessing they = Ottomans ) in favor of the Erdtree ( Christianity ). During which he became famous for his ruthlessness.

Dude is also red with fire and snakes all over. This, through a low hanging christian fruit perspective, is Lucifer, the devil. And in the trailer someone says something about those who don't return to the Erdtree ( heaven ) are killed by Messmer's flame ( hell ).

Thoughts, support, arguments against?

I think you are correct that Messmer is a Lucifer or Satan like figure. I think the speculation that he was the first to burn the Erdtree is possibly what got him banished. He tried to rise to full godhood from demigodhood, but was denied by the greater will. In response he burns the Erdtree and tries to take rise to godhood by force. The serpents join him in rebellion and betray the erdtree. Messmer loses his attempted rebellion and his cast out to the land of shadow, Messmer makes war with the inhabitants of the land of shadow since they don't have the grace of gold.

As an aside if Messmer did burn the erdtree the first time this may be the origin of the phrase "the flame of ambition" that Morgott uses. Any time someone attempts to rise above the station or forsakes/ betrays the golden order one is "emboldened by the flame of ambition" like Messmer .