New DLC better ruin seamless co-op for good

[Bazongo]

You shouldnt be able to get carried through the game without being invaded. I hope Miyazaki has added some code blocking to their mod, and also send a cease and desist letter. PVP has been part of the souls franchise forever and they arent respecting fromsoft's vision by avoiding it when in co-op mode.

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

Originally posted by GamingWithSilvertail:

People will find alternatives ways (Such as just placing signs near boss gates, cause thats how the majority probally does it).

If you think that's competing, thats fine, but I personally dont think these people are 'counted' in the pool as you will just have a double load screen.

I'm trying to speak holistically, to avoid reducing "vanilla multiplayer" to "invadeable targets."

I'm not sure about that either; I actually get relatively few fogwall invasions. That doesn't necessarily mean fogwall summoning isn't common (might just not be getting pulled in fast enough), but I think it's pretty common for coop groups to try and clear levels or open world bosses.

You barely see signs or summons for open world content. It's litterally mainly bosses

[Brma]

I don't get why people wouldn't want to get invaded. They are usually terrible and me and my friend wipe the floor with them. It's fun.

[mpcgannon]

Originally posted by Brma:

I don't get why people wouldn't want to get invaded. They are usually terrible and me and my friend wipe the floor with them. It's fun.

Gank City Baby

[ramattis]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

Originally posted by ramattis:

Speaking solely of Elden Ring, 100% of mods besides seamless don't allow multiplayer so there's absolutely no competition between them and the base game; it's effectively the same as playing offline (a method available by default with no modding needed).

I'm not super sure about what mods can be taken online, but let's go with that. Modded competes with unmodded by its nature - anyone playing vanilla is not playing modded, and anyone playing modded cannot play vanilla.

I don't understand why you're arguing that only Seamless splits the player base. The playerbase is everyone who plays the game - online, offline, etc. The offline feature splits the playerbase - I don't think it's relevant whether the groups are composed of people playing solo vs playing together, you've still split the playerbase into different groups.

Even if you want to restrict it to "people who normally play ER's vanilla multiplayer," mods still split that group - if those people are playing Convergence, they also are not playing on the official servers.

Seamless is unique only in the demographic it appeals to, not whether it splits the playerbase.

So there's basically two distinct states to the game: engaging with multiplayer (requires connection to servers) and not. You can freely switch between the two. Online/offline is insufficient to describe these states because you can be connected to the servers (thus online) but not engaging with multiplayer. Something to note: one can say that the two states create a split in the playerbase by default but I would argue that this is not the case because the game was designed around these two mutually exclusive states.

Continuing on, playing a modded game means you cannot be connected to the servers and therefore cannot engage with multiplayer. This is the same state you would be in if you were voluntarily not engaging with multiplayer. So modded content provides no competition to the engaging with multiplayer state because it cannot do so anyway and it provides no competition to the not engaging state because it is functionally the same. If you are alone (modded or not) you are not currently part of the online community since you are not engaging with it. So modded content cannot split the playerbase because it puts them in an identical state to simply not engaging with multiplayer by choice.

The issue is when you decide to engage with multiplayer. If there were no seamless, EVERYONE would be joining the official servers. But because seamless is available, there is an alternative to the official servers and therefore the playerbase is split with regards to the engaging with multiplayer state.

Regarding Convergence multiplayer, to my knowledge they use seamless to enable multiplayer so you could say that in that instance it's just an extension of seamless. Kind of a weird edge case. It wouldn't be competing with official multiplayer anyway since it's a mod and can't be used on the servers.

Anyway, apologies for the rambling and I hope I've made the above coherent enough to understand. I'm extra tired from work for whatever reason and can't think as well as I'd like to lol. I need sleep but it ain't bedtime quite yet...

[ultra\/illante]

i don't care if ppl dislike seamless co-op cus it'll be easy to find like minded ppl if you like it or dislike it. i for one will be using seamless co-op once its updated but in till then ill be soloing the dlc. i don't play with trashy sniffling crybabies so to say if there was no seamless co-op i wouldn't ever be playing with online. now if anyone wants to tell me how this hurts there game and feeling feel free to do so. and i 'll send you back to my first statement idc.

[2cide]

lol rip souls-bore pvp

[Yard-Dog®]

Originally posted by 2cide:

lol rip souls-bore pvp

Good riddance. It needs to die and be reborn proper.

[Arcade Bumstead]

Originally posted by Yard-Dog®:

Originally posted by 2cide:

lol rip souls-bore pvp

Good riddance. It needs to die and be reborn proper.

no u

[Yard-Dog®]

Originally posted by Arcade Bumstead:

Originally posted by Yard-Dog®:

Good riddance. It needs to die and be reborn proper.

no u

Ouch.

[ressenmacher]

Originally posted by ramattis:

So there's basically two distinct states to the game: engaging with multiplayer (requires connection to servers) and not.

I think we disagree here. This is true for some people, but not necessarily all - as an example, many casual players will slip in and out of multiplayer by summoning to get through areas or bosses they struggle with and then play solo when they don't. As another, some players will go through the game without multiplayer but will have the blue cipher ring on to be summoned as a blue.

All mods remove players who would otherwise engage in multiplayer, the coop mod just does it via specifically attracting multiplayer-interested players while the others do it incidentally, by being worth more than the multiplayer to their users.

Originally posted by ramattis:

The issue is when you decide to engage with multiplayer. If there were no seamless, EVERYONE would be joining the official servers. But because seamless is available, there is an alternative to the official servers and therefore the playerbase is split with regards to the engaging with multiplayer state.

I'm not sure - they might play something else, or choose not to engage with multiplayer at all, if Seamless were not an option.

I wish there was better data available about this sort of dynamic, though.

Originally posted by ramattis:

\
Anyway, apologies for the rambling and I hope I've made the above coherent enough to understand. I'm extra tired from work for whatever reason and can't think as well as I'd like to lol. I need sleep but it ain't bedtime quite yet...

No worries; I thank you for clarifying your position and hope you got some rest.

[PhyrixisGaming]

My absolute favorite thing to do? Stand at a boss door, after summoning my friend to my session, and then we sit there and wait. When we see the invader running up, doing all their buffing, and ready to go, I then turn around and walk through the fog door, forcing them back to their own world. I got to waste their time, resources, and it puts a smile on my face every single time.

Then when I get bored of doing that, I'll hop on over to Seamless and actually go enjoy the game I paid for, how I want to enjoy it. PvP free.

[Senki]

Originally posted by PhyrixisGaming:

My absolute favorite thing to do? Stand at a boss door, after summoning my friend to my session, and then we sit there and wait. When we see the invader running up, doing all their buffing, and ready to go, I then turn around and walk through the fog door, forcing them back to their own world. I got to waste their time, resources, and it puts a smile on my face every single time.

Then when I get bored of doing that, I'll hop on over to Seamless and actually go enjoy the game I paid for, how I want to enjoy it. PvP free.

based

[Shinkiro]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

I'm not sure - they might play something else, or choose not to engage with multiplayer at all, if Seamless were not an option.

I wish there was better data available about this sort of dynamic, though.

Nah if there's no other option and they want to play together that badly they will use the proper MP (and likely dupe and exploit for any advantage they can). Those types of people cave easily to peer pressure. The ones saying they wouldn't on a forum mean nothing as we know people have said as such and then proceeded to play it anyway over the last decade. The people angry enough to boycott it entirely are a tiny angry minority and the game isnt designed for them.

Even if they don't, well thats why the MP is optional in the first place.

[Sc0rpiTr0n]

Originally posted by PhyrixisGaming:

My absolute favorite thing to do? Stand at a boss door, after summoning my friend to my session, and then we sit there and wait. When we see the invader running up, doing all their buffing, and ready to go, I then turn around and walk through the fog door, forcing them back to their own world. I got to waste their time, resources, and it puts a smile on my face every single time.

But you waste your time as well waiting for invader.
Not to mention it is not very nice thing to do to.

I am curious though, if you could deactivate/opt out of invasions and still play official co-op
would you still lure invaders to waste their time or you would play co-op without invasions?

In other words do you like to grief invaders and would continue to
do it even if you could deactivate invasions in official co-op?

[Automaton-37467]

Originally posted by PhyrixisGaming:

My absolute favorite thing to do? Stand at a boss door, after summoning my friend to my session, and then we sit there and wait. When we see the invader running up, doing all their buffing, and ready to go, I then turn around and walk through the fog door, forcing them back to their own world. I got to waste their time, resources, and it puts a smile on my face every single time.

Then when I get bored of doing that, I'll hop on over to Seamless and actually go enjoy the game I paid for, how I want to enjoy it. PvP free.

You know not every invader feeds on misery and hates every host right?