I hate bloody hate quests in this game

[Aradner]

Yeah, i know, most of us already know it, and it was talked about, but we do not talk about it enough. I really wanted to get Dragon King's Cragblade, i did research to check what gets failed when you burn erdtree AND I STILL MISSED BLOODY NEPHELI LOUX. THE QUEST WHICH ONLY PURPOSE IS TO TALK TO A PERSON 5 TIMES.

FromSoftware quest design is not clever, intriguing or whatever people attempt to call it. It frustrating obnoxious garbage that spoils the fun of these games, you have a choice to do a chore of a homework, or know for a fact you peramently missed something, in this case ULTIMATE UPGRADE MATERIAL. I've been with this franchise since bloodborne, with hundreds of hours in all titles, and those quests NEVER added anything of value to the experience. They are obnoxious, convoluted messes, that NOBODY experienced organically EVER. Why can't they be just self contained puzzels? Like failing volcano manor because you kill Rykard makes perfect sense, but for the love of god, STOP ATTACHING QUEST FAILS TO STORY BOSSES.

Edit: Lots of people have no idea what is the corelation between dragon cragblade and Nepheli, which only proves my point further...

[Aradner]

Originally posted by csand:

Lol. Norm's right. 😂

I know there is no direct "go here and do this " or arrow pointers, but all the quests pretty much give you hints as to where they are going. You will have to think a bit sometimes

Not sure how Norm's right, but as for the quest hints, yes they do give you hints what to do, but none give you hints you're about to fail them. In this instance i wanted to do as much of the game as possible on lower level with my favourite weapon. I have no problem with actual progression of the quests, although quests like Millicent or Hyetta have nothing to do with thinking, you just have to randomly stumble upon them mutliple times. My problem is that you FAIL them by advancing main story, and there is a lot of them, its easy to forget about some.

[csand]

Well, most games were like this back on the day. I prefer it personally. You should be able to miss stuff and there's nothing wrong w that

[Aradner]

Originally posted by csand:

Well, most games were like this back on the day. I prefer it personally. You should be able to miss stuff and there's nothing wrong w that

True, but making it so convoluted you can still accidentally forget and lock yourself out of some stuff on your 5th playthrough, while doublechecking with guide, is entirely other thing. I tried to search for some list of what gets failed/locked on what trigger, and as far as i can tell, this game is so full of trash little quests and triggers, no such guide exist.

[mpcgannon]

I bloody love your use of the adverb "bloody."

[Basarab Laiota]

game could use a questlog, for sure
not even anything hand-holdy, just something simple like "Due to my actions at blahblahblah, Nepheli Loux has refused to blahblahblah, this quest can no longer be complete, Quest Failed."

[Kevin Ryan]

Originally posted by Aradner:

Yeah, i know, most of us already know it, and it was talked about, but we do not talk about it enough. I really wanted to get Dragon King's Cragblade, i did research to check what gets failed when you burn erdtree AND I STILL MISSED BLOODY NEPHELI LOUX. THE QUEST WHICH ONLY PURPOSE IS TO TALK TO A PERSON 5 TIMES.

FromSoftware quest design is not clever, intriguing or whatever people attempt to call it. It frustrating obnoxious garbage that spoils the fun of these games, you have a choice to do a chore of a homework, or know for a fact you peramently missed something, in this case ULTIMATE UPGRADE MATERIAL. I've been with this franchise since bloodborne, with hundreds of hours in all titles, and those quests NEVER added anything of value to the experience. They are obnoxious, convoluted messes, that NOBODY experienced organically EVER. Why can't they be just self contained puzzels? Like failing volcano manor because you kill Rykard makes perfect sense, but for the love of god, STOP ATTACHING QUEST FAILS TO STORY BOSSES.

Nepheli Loux has nothing to do with the Dragon King's Cragblade.

What are you talking about?

[Kevin Ryan]

Originally posted by Aradner:

Originally posted by csand:

Well, most games were like this back on the day. I prefer it personally. You should be able to miss stuff and there's nothing wrong w that

True, but making it so convoluted you can still accidentally forget and lock yourself out of some stuff on your 5th playthrough, while doublechecking with guide, is entirely other thing. I tried to search for some list of what gets failed/locked on what trigger, and as far as i can tell, this game is so full of trash little quests and triggers, no such guide exist.

Google better

https://roundtablehold.net/checklists/tldr_all_npc_quest_stepsin_order.html

[Mewsha]

It can be a bit tedious for sure. I feel like their quest design works in more linear settings like the Dark Souls games, but in the open world it's rough knowing you've locked yourself out of valuable questlines or a choice simply because you went too far ahead, or missed some dialogue.

There's things you have to cross reference and you should follow a guide of some sort. My thing is, if 99% of us are doing that in order to follow the quest, then why can't we just have a questlog? If you're not a games journalist or a content creator, it's just a weird position to take.

I think if they ever do an open world game again they should probably add something like a quest log. This game isn't exactly screaming "old style," either. You get locked out of quests way too easily which I don't recall in any older games I've played that didn't have a questlog, and not to mention we have access to so many modern conveniences already like a map, immediate fast travel, and waypoints.

[Aradner]

Originally posted by Kevin Ryan:

Google better
By
https://roundtablehold.net/checklists/tldr_all_npc_quest_stepsin_order.html

This is a checklist of everything to do, i'm talking about list of what gets failed on which boss or action

[Kalameet]

TL;DR: Don't smack your head; use a guide.

Fromsoftware quests are obtuse by design (because Miyazaki wants to make people repeat his shoddy childhood moments, where he had books he couldn't read properly and he had to make guesses)

Meanwhile, everyone else (mostly Fromsoftware shills): "It's tHe bEaUtY Of tHe gAmE, sMaCk yOuR HeAd uNtIl yOu gEt iT RiGhT"

[Senki]

i agree, quests in these games are something I genuinely consider bad design

there's nothing fun, engaging or smart about needing to reset an area like 4 times just for the npc to finally decide to progress the quest (fia's quest for example) or looking for them and their items in some of the most random places

[Humpenstilzchen]

Originally posted by Senki:

i agree, quests in these games are something I genuinely consider bad design

there's nothing fun, engaging or smart about needing to reset an area like 4 times just for the npc to finally decide to progress the quest (fia's quest for example) or looking for them and their items in some of the most random places

I second this. It´s really bad.

[Kevin Ryan]

Originally posted by Aradner:

Originally posted by Kevin Ryan:

Google better
By
https://roundtablehold.net/checklists/tldr_all_npc_quest_stepsin_order.html

This is a checklist of everything to do, i'm talking about list of what gets failed on which boss or action

Did you even look at it? Bosses are included in that list if they matter.

Google AND read better.

[Kevin Ryan]

Originally posted by Kalameet:

TL;DR: Don't smack your head; use a guide.

Fromsoftware quests are obtuse by design (because Miyazaki wants to make people repeat his shoddy childhood moments, where he had books he couldn't read properly and he had to make guesses)

Meanwhile, everyone else (mostly Fromsoftware shills): "It's tHe bEaUtY Of tHe gAmE, sMaCk yOuR HeAd uNtIl yOu gEt iT RiGhT"

Actually the obtuse design of the quests and certain elements of the world encourage interaction amongst players either by using systems in-game (hmmm, there appear to be a number of messages in this otherwise empty spot) or in third party forums like this.

At the end of the day though, the games are designed to be replayed.

Noone, including Miyazaki, expects you to get it your first time.

But people eventually do get it.

The information has to originate from somewhere, don't forget.

[Youshisu]

Originally posted by Kevin Ryan:

Originally posted by Kalameet:

TL;DR: Don't smack your head; use a guide.

Fromsoftware quests are obtuse by design (because Miyazaki wants to make people repeat his shoddy childhood moments, where he had books he couldn't read properly and he had to make guesses)

Meanwhile, everyone else (mostly Fromsoftware shills): "It's tHe bEaUtY Of tHe gAmE, sMaCk yOuR HeAd uNtIl yOu gEt iT RiGhT"

Actually the obtuse design of the quests and certain elements of the world encourage interaction amongst players either by using systems in-game (hmmm, there appear to be a number of messages in this otherwise empty spot) or in third party forums like this.

At the end of the day though, the games are designed to be replayed.

Noone, including Miyazaki, expects you to get it your first time.

But people eventually do get it.

The information has to originate from somewhere, don't forget.

yea, not complete all quests on 130h game, but fight stone cats 5 times in single playthrough