Frenzied Flame is the true ending of Elden Ring

[noisyturtle]

It really seems to be the way the game was meant to end. It makes the most sense for the mc's journey, the history, and the timeline. All the other endings seem tacked on, or like fan service. Thoughts?

[mpcgannon]

I'd also like to point out
Outer Gods come in all shapes and sizes. The two fingers are vassels for the greater will. Why are there three fingers for ff? No fingers for the blood goddess or fell giant ( I think I'm getting all the names wrong but bear with me ). There's some kind of relation between the two and three fingers that had nothing to do with other outer gods. I also don't think ff ends the universe otherwise it probably would have happened on one of the millions of other planets so it probably just ends the Lands Between and is restricted to that scope. Again, no facts expressed in game.

[SunfireKnight86]

Messaggio originale di echo_ML:

Messaggio originale di mpcgannon:

My perspective is this
The Golden Order is Christianity and they have gone on "witch hunts." Anything against the church is "evil." So anyone who blindly follows or supports the order, has an agenda. What is more threatening than a reset button that undoes not ONLY Marika's Golden Order ( Erdtree ) but the Elden Ring itself ( outer god ).
Is it "bad".
Yes.
♥♥♥♥ you all. Burn

From what we can gather in game, I don't think Marika and Melina serve the golden order, at least not blindly.

The entire reason Marika shattered the elden ring was to get rid of the golden order and the greater will, and Melina likely serves her in that aspect, guiding us to the elden ring and becoming a lord of a new age.

But yes, i do agree with you that the golden order and it's followers are awful along with their witch hunts. They sealed the innocent merchants beneath the capital just because they thought they might be serving the frenzied flame. Overall i think anything but the Dung Eater ending, frenzy flame ending, and elden lord ending is a good ending, or at least better than what there is now.

Edit: i really wish Kale's questline didn't get cut. It adds so much more depth to this storyline.

Probably says more about how awful the FF is. It's so bad people were locked up for even MAYBE serving it. And then later they proved THAT THEY DID. People always treat the locking up the merchants as a bad thing without ever considering it was justified to prevent them from summoning the Frenzied Flame.

[SunfireKnight86]

Messaggio originale di echo_ML:

Messaggio originale di mpcgannon:

And my point stands: How can the universe be OVER when Melina is standing with a purple eye promising us destined death.
cAn'T tElL tHiS gUy AnYtHiNg

That is a really good point. Either the universe hasn't fully burned yet, or its the secondary option i mentioned in a previous post, where life itself is not destroyed, but peoples ability to live is. I'm leaning more towards the second option.

Edit: Also, since we don't mend the Elden Ring in the frenzy ending, presumably death is still broken, so no one can die, therefore the universe can't entirely end.

Or the universe is being destroyed and she's trying to stop it. Seems the obvious thing to me.

Messaggio originale di echo_ML:

Messaggio originale di mpcgannon:

What is destined death? Melina can be a spirit fine, but if everything else is dead what is Melina taking about? Why are we the ONLY ones alive? Again, FS and Michael Zaki making things vague and unclear. At least we have people here with all the answers.

I wasn't saying everyone else was dead, i was saying no one is dead, but they don't get to live because their thoughts and sanity are destroyed by the flame.

Im sorry if I'm coming across as some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ know-it-all, I'm not trying to do that. I wanna have an actual discussion about the lore, because i find it very interesting :)

You're coming across as someone who actually understands the game.

[SunfireKnight86]

Messaggio originale di Arcade Bumstead:

Messaggio originale di mpcgannon:

But this is not just throwing our hands in the air and realising autonomy. The character goes out of his way to change himself and then ( presumably ) change the world. That's why I mean toward anarchy.

Frenzied Flame is letting people watch the world burn.

Perhaps burning it all down is the moral stance, if it offers the idea of a better future. Life finds a way, and all that.
"The sun hidden there, awaiting the next chapter"

Except the game flat out states the world is either destroyed or void of all life. It states that explicitly multiple times.

Messaggio originale di echo_ML:

Messaggio originale di mpcgannon:

I'm actually unfamiliar. I thought it was something about preventing the Erdtree absorbing souls but I really don't know.

Nah, the ending is that nothing changes except everyone that pops out of the erdtree after being reborn is cursed and miserable

That dude presents himself as an expert on the lore and wasn't aware of one ending?

[mpcgannon]

Messaggio originale di SunfireKnight86:

Messaggio originale di Arcade Bumstead:

Perhaps burning it all down is the moral stance, if it offers the idea of a better future. Life finds a way, and all that.
"The sun hidden there, awaiting the next chapter"

Except the game flat out states the world is either destroyed or void of all life. It states that explicitly multiple times.

Messaggio originale di echo_ML:

Nah, the ending is that nothing changes except everyone that pops out of the erdtree after being reborn is cursed and miserable

That dude presents himself as an expert on the lore and wasn't aware of one ending?

Keep trying. I pointed out repeatedly that you are no expert and that the game does not explicitly support you.

[ressenmacher]

Messaggio originale di SunfireKnight86:

Probably says more about how awful the FF is. It's so bad people were locked up for even MAYBE serving it. And then later they proved THAT THEY DID. People always treat the locking up the merchants as a bad thing without ever considering it was justified to prevent them from summoning the Frenzied Flame.

Messaggio originale di nomadic merchant set:

These merchants once thrived as the Great Caravan, but after being accused of heretical beliefs, their entire clan was rounded up and buried alive far underground.

Then, they chanted a curse of despair, and summoned the flame of frenzy.

It's unclear whether the Nomadic Mechants worshipped the Frenzied Flame before their burial, but it's pretty clear that the burial was a mistake under any context, as it drove them to embrace it much more fully and "summon" it, presumably as the physical Three Fingers Vyke and potentially the player contact.

[5chneemensch]

All the endings are equally good and bad. Claiming otherwise is... uninformed, to say it nicely. It all depends mostly on your personal views and morals.

- FF ending returning everything back to promordial soup so the BigBang can happen again (hard reset of the universe).
- Dung Eater ending to return TLB back to its original state (everything born from the primordial crucible)
- Fia ending so people can actually die again (and not be sucked up by the Erdtree and/or be reborn through various means)
- Gold Mask ending to create the perfect GO (and removing anything that is not in line with it i.e. true death and the crucible)
- Ranni ending to remove outside influence and hope TLB find their own way (complete anarchy).

Dung Eater is the only true ending if you care at all for the natives (misbegotten, omen, crucible knights, ancestral followers, godskins, dragons... and animals in general) and do not want to be considered an english colonizer and/or christian missionary.

[SunfireKnight86]

Messaggio originale di ressenmacher:

Messaggio originale di SunfireKnight86:

Probably says more about how awful the FF is. It's so bad people were locked up for even MAYBE serving it. And then later they proved THAT THEY DID. People always treat the locking up the merchants as a bad thing without ever considering it was justified to prevent them from summoning the Frenzied Flame.

Messaggio originale di nomadic merchant set:

These merchants once thrived as the Great Caravan, but after being accused of heretical beliefs, their entire clan was rounded up and buried alive far underground.

Then, they chanted a curse of despair, and summoned the flame of frenzy.

It's unclear whether the Nomadic Mechants worshipped the Frenzied Flame before their burial, but it's pretty clear that the burial was a mistake under any context, as it drove them to embrace it much more fully and "summon" it, presumably as the physical Three Fingers Vyke and potentially the player contact.

Don't know where you get "under any context" from the short paragraph you just posted.

Messaggio originale di 5chneemensch:

All the endings are equally good and bad. Claiming otherwise is... uninformed, to say it nicely. It all depends mostly on your personal views and morals.

- FF ending returning everything back to promordial soup so the BigBang can happen again (hard reset of the universe).
- Dung Eater ending to return TLB back to its original state (everything born from the primordial crucible)
- Fia ending so people can actually die again (and not be sucked up by the Erdtree and/or be reborn through various means)
- Gold Mask ending to create the perfect GO (and removing anything that is not in line with it i.e. true death and the crucible)
- Ranni ending to remove outside influence and hope TLB find their own way (complete anarchy).

Dung Eater is the only true ending if you care at all for the natives (misbegotten, omen, crucible knights, ancestral followers, godskins, dragons... and animals in general) and do not want to be considered an english colonizer and/or christian missionary.

Except the FF doesn't want life. It is against life. The goal would be for everything to be returned to zero and then not started again. The Dung Eater ending is "everyone is reborn as a cursed monster of pain and hate" which is also a hard sell as a "good ending." I'd much rather be a colonizer than a ♥♥♥♥ eating monster person, thanks. Fia ending is also sketchy when you realize its "everyone will die and then be an eternal undead in a dead world."

[Mr.America]

All the endings are bad.

Normal Ending: Leave the broken status quo as is for one more turn around the wheel. Warlord ending, endless feudal wars.

FF Ending: Everything dies, the chaos flame takes over, as it is lying to us about even attempting to fix it, instead it's just another outer god taking the lands between.

Fia ending: The rule of the weak, everything becomes still. Endless winter.

Dung Eater ending: Hey if everyone is suffering the same, it's as if noone is suffering. Except, everyone's suffering.

Ranni ending: Arguably the best one, but it is completely hands off, hoping that Ranni's master plan is actually going to work and not be influenced by one thing or another.

Gold Mask ending: Create the perfect unchanging order that includes everything. Congrats on absolute tyranny, if anything ever changes the entire thing will break spectacularly.

That said, I enjoy the the frenzied flame into golden order path. Attempt to become Elden Lord, go insane from the pressure, have a boy sage calm your mind and restore true order, it has a nice ring to it.

[Mr.America]

Messaggio originale di SunfireKnight86:

Except the FF doesn't want life. It is against life. The goal would be for everything to be returned to zero and then not started again.

Wait, that's wrong. If Hyetta isn't lying to us, she explicitly says that there was a "mistake"

"All that there is came from the One Great.
Then came fractures,
and births,
and souls.

But the Greater Will made a mistake.
Torment, despair, affliction...
every sin, every curse.
Every one, born of the mistake.

And so, what was borrowed must be returned.
Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame.
Until all is One again."

The assumption that life is the mistake is false, only Melina says something along those lines. As far as Hyetta is concerned, the one great fractured into births and souls (which was good!) but it did a mistake somewhere in there. And from that mistake came suffering (the same suffering Dung Eater is so affiliated with). So, what Hyetta implies is, that everything must be melted away, so that everything can be melted back into the one great, so it might try again.

However, the problem is, that we aren't sure that the frenzied flame itself, as an outer god, isn't lying to us through Hyetta, who is arguably dead and animated by Shabiri. And HE screams that chaos may take the world, which is really unassuring about the whole FF thing.

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

the true ending of elden ring is the friends we made along the way.

[Sempervirens]

Video games are fun :)

[echo_ML]

Messaggio originale di Sempervirens:

Video games are fun :)

Me personally,

I agree

[Arcade Bumstead]

Messaggio originale di echo_ML:

Messaggio originale di Sempervirens:

Video games are fun :)

Me personally,

I agree

I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate video games. They just perpetuate the male fantasy.

[rabureta]

Messaggio originale di Mr.America:

All the endings are bad.

Normal Ending: Leave the broken status quo as is for one more turn around the wheel. Warlord ending, endless feudal wars.

FF Ending: Everything dies, the chaos flame takes over, as it is lying to us about even attempting to fix it, instead it's just another outer god taking the lands between.

Fia ending: The rule of the weak, everything becomes still. Endless winter.

Dung Eater ending: Hey if everyone is suffering the same, it's as if noone is suffering. Except, everyone's suffering.

Ranni ending: Arguably the best one, but it is completely hands off, hoping that Ranni's master plan is actually going to work and not be influenced by one thing or another.

Gold Mask ending: Create the perfect unchanging order that includes everything. Congrats on absolute tyranny, if anything ever changes the entire thing will break spectacularly.

Some counterpoints:

The FF ending relies on a lot of vague implications. Hyetta's dialogue suggests that it isn't life that's the problem, but something imposed by the Greater Will when it arrived, and now to fix the world we have to return to the One Great and start over. The problem is that we have no other information about the One Great or exact nature of the Greater Will's supposed mistake, so we can neither prove nor disprove anything Hyetta says.

Fia's ending depends on the full implications of Godwyn, Deathroot, and Those Who Live in Death on the metaphysics of the world. But again, we have very little other than Fia's word to go on, since there is no other content exploring the viewpoint of Those Who Live in Death, as they all just kind of attack you on sight like everything else in the world.

Dung Eater is weird. There's nothing to suggest that Omens, Misbegotten, or so forth actually suffer from the curse itself; everything happens because they, like Those Who Live in Death, are persecuted by the Golden Order. Dung Eater's plan is to just make everyone fall outside the Golden Order so there's nobody left to do the persecuting.

Goldmask's realization is that the flaws in the Golden Order were never caused by the Elden Ring, but the gods being tyrants, and by creating a shield you prevent any more gods from coming to power and using the Ring to wage war or make everyone immortal or persecute people with weird horns or whatever.