Attempting a no summons run gave me a question.

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I'm trying a no summons run (wish me luck) and it got me thinking. Why do some people care what I do and don't use in pve? I never understood this and I would like anybody who thinks this way to explain it to me because I don't get it .-.

[DAWN OF THE DEAD]

Originally posted by Raze:

I definitely think that Elden Ring is meant to be followed on a certain path of progression, but since its open world, you can go anywhere and sometimes end up farming crazy amounts of runes just from exploring.

I've had times where I've completely bulldozed certain bosses because I was over leveled. That's the problem with open world though, or multiple paths of progression.

Boss scaling may be a possible solution there but a lot of gamers out there hate scaling. Some bosses in Elden Ring suck no matter what because they have tough mechanics, but I'll agree that some bosses, depending on build, are always trivial. They just need to work out the design side of it. This is their first open world souls type game so I can give them some grace. Maybe if they do open world again down the line, it'll be more refined.

I think dlc will show what they learned and prob will be good “indicator”. I guess most of us expected “open world” to have effect on game. And i don’t think ER is bad its just that Sekiro ruined me because how much i enjoy it. While ER kinda makes me worried a bit.

Another thing i see a lot of people “♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥” on elitism or gatekeeping i can understand but dam if those people didn’t bring attention to these games. “Git gud” and “Sun bro” memes reached me far far earlier until i actually tried these games and i initially would never thought how niche souls actually was. Doubt many of those elitist really care how others play it

[opus132]

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Originally posted by vamirez:

I am not addressing what you specifically say, I am talking about statements that are commonly made.

Even if you exchange "bad" for "rookies" that tells me that people who play with summons are "rookies". What should a player think who has played all Souls games and ER, using coop or NPC summons? Are they not a real Souls player? Did they not really beat the games? Why is that stance necessary?

Why do you need to set a bar for how to be "good" at the game, and in direct relation to that, why does only self-imposed challenge, i.e. not using major game mechanisms, equal being a "good" player?

In DS1 you are being told to summon friends to beat bosses. The game tells you this ("jolly cooperation"). Who came up with the idea that that's a crutch for bad players? It was other players.

I do not see any value of being "real soul player" or "beating the game". Why should anyone bother? They give badges for that somewhere?;)

By that argument, why bother playing the game at all?

I started playing FromSoft games with Dark Souls 1, and right from the beginning i avoided using summons.

Why? Because it felt like a good way to deprive myself of the enjoyment. It wasn't because i wanted people to "know" i could beat the game legit. Nobody was watching me play, nobody was going to know what i did or did not do in my own private time.

I did it purely for myself. The main selling point of this series is the challenge. I understand why FromSoft included summons. They didn't want people to feel they were prevented from finishing the game just because they met an obstacle they couldn't overcome. I get it. But to me it was always implied that summons were supposed to be a last resort, and i always assumed most people would try their hands on the boss on their own first.

After all, THAT'S the game. That's what you paid for. If you didn't want to rise up to the challenge, why even waste the money in the first place? What else you gonna play this game for besides the combat, the story? There's barely any plot and what's there is incomprehensible gibberish to most people.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by opus132:

But to me it was always implied that summons were supposed to be a last resort...

Who implied this to you? The games themselves sure didn't.

Btw many people play these games for the exploration, building up chars, and the lore. They are not pure boss-fight simulators.

[Tao314zdin]

Originally posted by opus132:

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

I do not see any value of being "real soul player" or "beating the game". Why should anyone bother? They give badges for that somewhere?;)

By that argument, why bother playing the game at all?

I started playing FromSoft games with Dark Souls 1, and right from the beginning i avoided using summons.

Why? Because it felt like a good way to deprive myself of the enjoyment. It wasn't because i wanted people to "know" i could beat the game legit. Nobody was watching me play, nobody was going to know what i did or did not do in my own private time.

I did it purely for myself. The main selling point of this series is the challenge. I understand why FromSoft included summons. They didn't want people to feel they were prevented from finishing the game just because they met an obstacle they couldn't overcome. I get it. But to me it was always implied that summons were supposed to be a last resort, and i always assumed most people would try their hands on the boss on their own first.

After all, THAT'S the game. That's what you paid for. If you didn't want to rise up to the challenge, why even waste the money in the first place? What else you gonna play this game for besides the combat, the story? There's barely any plot and what's there is incomprehensible gibberish to most people.

I play because I like:
1) the combat - fun and dynamic with a good build-variety.
2) multiplayer, admittedly not as good as DS3 (for the lack of variety in invasions mostly), but still the best multiplayer for the type of the game I'm aware off.

Here I must say that some MMO's are also pretty solid on the multiplayer/fighting combinations, but I do not have the time for that kind of things (used to play a lot GW2 years ago, but also mostly because with a little donation you can(could?) top-up without sinking much time)

Now when it comes to "be real souls player" or "beating the game" - on their own they do not mean much, because they do not tell anything certain about the player IMO.

To give a perspective: if someone just starts playing and in 50 h makes Malenia their B let-me-solo-her style. Well that tells something like:
-faster learner
-good reaction
-good focus
.. etc.
this means something because it reflects universally relevant qualities of the player. Just being a "soul vet" or "I beat the game proper" tells nothing as there are plenty of ways to achieve it without displaying any noteworthy qualities.

[DAWN OF THE DEAD]

Miyazaki went on to share that he believes the barrier of entry has been lowered in Elden Ring as well, due to design choices that now provide additional player agency. “In Elden Ring, we have not intentionally tried to lower the game’s difficulty,” he said. “But I think more players will finish it this time. As I mentioned, the player’s level of freedom to progress through the world or return to a challenge later are all elements that I feel will help people get through the game at a more leisurely pace.”