Vyke and the Two Fingers

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Lore speculation.

So Vyke seems to have followed the same plotline as the player on the Frenzy Flame route, until getting trapped in an Evergaol on Mountaintop of the Giants. This raises a few questions though. We'll ignore the "where did he get 2 great runes" because that's video-gamey, more interesting is what would have happened when he reached the impenetrable thorns. The Two Fingers would have tried to commune with the GW to figure out what to do, prompting the whole "burn the tree, sacrifice your maiden, sacrifice yourself instead" sequence.

Thing is, the Two Fingers were stated to spend ~hundreds of years afk to communicate with the GW. Which could be an interesting bit of information wrt how long the world has been shattered. On the one hand (heh) it makes sense that Eina would have an estimate for how long this takes if it had happened once already (due to Vyke). On the other hand, the thorns are played like a big surprise and if the Two Fingers had already asked the GW what to do about that scenario, why would they need to a second time? This could suggest the Two Fingers are either senile or think very differently from humans.

Of course the easier answer is "Vyke's the protagonist of his world, which is different from ours" which explains why he had great runes, but the game doesn't really seem to play it like that. It's also just a lame explanation, where most of the history of the world didn't actually happen to our world.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Spacesuit Spiff:

On the other hand, the thorns are played like a big surprise and if the Two Fingers had already asked the GW what to do about that scenario, why would they need to a second time? This could suggest the Two Fingers are either senile or think very differently from humans.

Or they are in on it. The thorns come into play if the Tarnished on their route to success is determined to be a danger instead of a good candidate that can be controlled.

[Detective Costeau]

There's also the fact that several characters imply/speculate that something is genuinely wrong or broken with the Two Fingers and guidance more generally. Varre and Boggart both do, anyway. They could just be senile/crazy.

[Urist Microcline]

Vyke's questline got cut as well as Kale's who were both involved with the Frenzy Flame. So the answers are probably lost in there.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Originally posted by vamirez:

Originally posted by Spacesuit Spiff:

On the other hand, the thorns are played like a big surprise and if the Two Fingers had already asked the GW what to do about that scenario, why would they need to a second time? This could suggest the Two Fingers are either senile or think very differently from humans.

Or they are in on it. The thorns come into play if the Tarnished on their route to success is determined to be a danger instead of a good candidate that can be controlled.

Could be interesting, but then surely they'd do literally anything other than go afk and leave the tarnished to most likely try to burn the tree. It's not a "ignore him until he goes away" kinda situation. Even just remaining active would likely stop Eina from explaining how to burn the tree.

[vamirez]

Originally posted by Spacesuit Spiff:

Originally posted by vamirez:

Or they are in on it. The thorns come into play if the Tarnished on their route to success is determined to be a danger instead of a good candidate that can be controlled.

Could be interesting, but then surely they'd do literally anything other than go afk and leave the tarnished to most likely try to burn the tree. It's not a "ignore him until he goes away" kinda situation. Even just remaining active would likely stop Eina from explaining how to burn the tree.

That is exactly what they do, tho. No more guidance, please wait 10000 moons.

It is not assumed that Eina or anyone would tell you to burn the tree, and it is not assumed on top that you can actually accomplish it.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Originally posted by vamirez:

That is exactly what they do, tho. No more guidance, please wait 10000 moons.

It is not assumed that Eina or anyone would tell you to burn the tree, and it is not assumed on top that you can actually accomplish it.

There's already a precedent if Vyke tried the same thing. Fingers being senile or just unfathomable makes it work tbf.

[MachineMother]

What if the "you need 2 great runes to progress" rule was instated because of Tarnished like Vyke who turned out to be a threat to the Greater Will? We know the GW prevents us from getting to the Erdtree unless we prove ourselves, but perhaps this wasn't always the case?

Time seems messy in this game so I'm not sure how long Vyke was imprisoned in the evergaol. The Shattering period seems to have lasted a very long time which is why nearly all the undead have lost their minds.

[rabureta]

I'm pretty sure it's confirmed that Vyke did, in fact, have two Great Runes.

It's worth noting that Maliketh's arena shows the Elden Ring as it was during the age of dragons, and it's much larger and more intricate than what we restore in any of the endings, so there are probably other Great Runes that are simply lost to time that people like Vyke could have nabbed.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Needing 2 does seem fairly arbitrary, especially any random 2 (well + Morgott but who knows if the Two Fingers accounted for him camping the tree). We know nothing about how the ER actually works and what reforging it entails so I'll give it a pass, but it's interesting. Maybe the great runes that were claimed by others eventually deteriorated into Rune Arcs or something else we find lying around everywhere (funny but not actually plausible). There'll 100% be at least one more GR in the DLC though.

I'm glad they didn't go with the fairly obvious "the bosses eventually respawn with their GRs" route.