What's the "point" of DEX builds (in PvE)?

[Greywander]

Imagine you're explaining the benefits of different builds to a new player. STR gets more physical defense and you can two-hand for a whopping 50% boost to STR. INT and FTH get you access to spells. ARC is more specialized, but that just gives it a clearer niche.

But what would you say about DEX? What benefit does DEX provide that other builds don't get? Because I don't see one. Not on a pure DEX build. Sure, DEX increases casting speed, but you're not casting spells on a pure DEX build. The Lightning affinity is good (better in PvP), but not so good (in PvE) that it eclipses all other affinities. Most dragons heavily resist lightning damage, and anyway a FTH build can also get you access to lightning damage via incantations.

What it seems like is that nobody starts off with the intention to make a pure DEX build. Rather, they've settled on using a specific weapon, and that weapon just happens to have a high DEX requirement or scales better with Keen or Lightning.

One niche I feel is missing is consumables. Pots, perfumes, knives, and greases. Only some of these scale, and each with their own stats. "Toolbelts" and "gadgets" are common tropes for thief archetypes, which are also often associated with a DEX stat or system equivalent. Also, DEX/caster hybrids would just use magic to create similar effects, so they wouldn't get as much benefit as pure DEX builds. And really, damage greases should scale. But sadly, this is just wishful thinking on my part and not going to happen.

[Sparhawk 59]

most are combo Dex/faith Dex/int Dex/str

Intelligence/Dexterity builds in Elden Ring are some of the strongest available due to the variety of amazing weapons and spells that require those attributes.

Are the Dex builds any good in Elden Ring?
Best Dexterity Builds In Elden Ring
A Dex build in Elden Ring is fast, deadly, and cunning, much like its users. The best Dex build Elden Ring has to offer might not rock the raw damage numbers of the Giant Crusher, but it can still decimate HP bars in other ways.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Dex makes sense at much higher levels/if one doesn't care about a meta level for PvP. You wouldn't be a pure-anything build beyond a certain point, in NG+. It's useful for early-game if you've started with high dex, but at a certain point, your stats would be better distributed some other way.

Besides that, dex/int builds are fairly neat since Cold infusions preserve original scaling to some degree, like Occult. Spells that apply status or reset the Cold proc are useful and benefit greatly from cast speed, in order to actually get combos off. So, play around with these things a bit more; it's fun to theory-craft but more fulfilling to exercise.

Pure dex isn't really a concept any different from pure strength, pure faith, etc - choosing a form of damage to apply and a set of weapons that particularly excel with the affinity of your choosing. Have you noticed some weapons take affinities more or less efficiently than others? And that after a certain level, you've hit the soft caps you needed to and 6 points in another direct can unlock many other tools?

tl;dr hypothetical strict build paths aren't generally what people do, from what people post of their stats, both informed and uninformed. This is a case where you should absolutely try a dex build for yourself.

[LuckyCheshire]

The very basic idea of Dexterity is fast attacks with short cooldowns, in contrast to Strength's massive heavy attacks with lots of poise damage but slow swings. In practical terms though, Dex does lend itself to hybrid builds very easily.

[Greywander]

This confirms most of what I was thinking. Pure DEX builds don't have anything to recommend them, but hybrid DEX builds have a lot of perks. And yeah, for PvE you'll eventually hit the softcap and start putting points into something else, so you're only pure DEX up until that point.

One build I tried for a bit was a DEX/FTH Godslayer themed character built around Black Flame Blade. It was interesting, as BFB is very different from other weapon buff spells. I would like to give that build another try at some point and get farther into the game with it.

I haven't finished the game once since I got the last achievement, the game is just too big and I lose interest in a build before I finish it. But the build I've probably gotten the farthest with since then is a DEX/ARC build with an Occult Nagakiba. "If it bleeds, we can kill it." (The twingoyles were not fun with this build.) But this is really more of an ARC build and the DEX is just incidental.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by LuckyCheshire777:

The very basic idea of Dexterity is fast attacks with short cooldowns, in contrast to Strength's massive heavy attacks with lots of poise damage but slow swings. In practical terms though, Dex does lend itself to hybrid builds very easily.

That works as a sort of genre descriptor, but the function itself is a bit deeper here. But yeah overall, the ideas laid out sound viable and honestly kinda fun. I did a Cold Dex build, then Occult Strength, then a mish-mash where Faith was involved but not the main character. Weapon affinity/scaling behavior makes a lot more sense in this game than Souls, that's for sure.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by LuckyCheshire777:

The very basic idea of Dexterity is fast attacks with short cooldowns, in contrast to Strength's massive heavy attacks with lots of poise damage but slow swings. In practical terms though, Dex does lend itself to hybrid builds very easily.

Also...

Originally posted by Greywander:

...The Lightning affinity is good (better in PvP), but not so good (in PvE) that it eclipses all other affinities. Most dragons heavily resist lightning damage...

Very few enemies/bosses have high lightning defense. A handful of (aforementioned) dragons. No reason to throw it out on account of a couple of dragons.

[Lil Grandpa]

Pure dex exists for people that don't want to be vulnerable during and after swinging. Between the two, I'd actually caution a new player to be a dex build over strength because of how lenient it is with timing.

But hybridization fits both str and dex, really. Even in Dark Souls, darkmoon/sunlight blade and a dex weapon melted healthbars. Now it's bleed+whatever.

[Greywander]

Yeah, Lightning is good, it's just a question of if it justifies passing up the defense boost of STR or the spells of INT or FTH. I've also heard that Magic damage is pretty steady outside of a few places like Raya Lucaria. And pure physical damage is one of the most consist. Lightning is good, but it's not without competition.

Fast attack speeds are properties of the weapon, not DEX. Nothing about DEX makes weapons attack faster. You could just as easily take the same weapon and slap a Heavy infusion on it, or use one of the non-DEX weapons in the same class.

I'm not saying pure DEX builds are bad, only that they don't have any of the perks that other stats offer.

[AerSilver ♞]

Not everybody enjoys the usual souls games "unga-bunga" boring pancakes bonks.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by Greywander:

...You could just as easily take the same weapon and slap a Heavy infusion on it...

You could, but you're gimping the weapon, and that's assuming you can infuse it. Some dex weapons can't be infused.

[cybercybercybercyber4]

dual wielding
status buildup
lower weight
lower comitment to attacks
comparable DPS
interesting range/movesets/ashes on some of them
switching to bow for an advantagous opener
higher critical damage
possibly faster casting

but do all those even combined overshadow hyper armor of strenght attacks?, nah.

[Hunubul]

You can have a good dex build as others said.
You can apply statuses much faster, you can use buffs.
And you can hit & run all enemies much easier. You don't have to commit to attacks that much.
Parry riposte and backstab a lot of enemies.

There are many talismans that help with a dex build. Combo attacks, low weight and other things can help give you a lot of damage, while remaining versatile.

But the thing is, a build is only good if you are good with it, and you enjoy it. This is so player dependent. You may be better with strength builds or caster builds. Depends on you entirely.

[kahahn]

the main point of dex is status effects, things like sleep and poison are only really effective on dex builds due to the fact that that you can proc them more often becuase you are landing more hits

[causality]

Originally posted by Greywander:

Imagine you're explaining the benefits of different builds to a new player. STR gets more physical defense and you can two-hand for a whopping 50% boost to STR. INT and FTH get you access to spells. ARC is more specialized, but that just gives it a clearer niche.

But what would you say about DEX? What benefit does DEX provide that other builds don't get? Because I don't see one. Not on a pure DEX build. Sure, DEX increases casting speed, but you're not casting spells on a pure DEX build. The Lightning affinity is good (better in PvP), but not so good (in PvE) that it eclipses all other affinities. Most dragons heavily resist lightning damage, and anyway a FTH build can also get you access to lightning damage via incantations.

What it seems like is that nobody starts off with the intention to make a pure DEX build. Rather, they've settled on using a specific weapon, and that weapon just happens to have a high DEX requirement or scales better with Keen or Lightning.

One niche I feel is missing is consumables. Pots, perfumes, knives, and greases. Only some of these scale, and each with their own stats. "Toolbelts" and "gadgets" are common tropes for thief archetypes, which are also often associated with a DEX stat or system equivalent. Also, DEX/caster hybrids would just use magic to create similar effects, so they wouldn't get as much benefit as pure DEX builds. And really, damage greases should scale. But sadly, this is just wishful thinking on my part and not going to happen.

Because powerstance stance cane swords do 4x the dps of a colossal weapon while also weighing only like 2.5 Miyazakis and having better frame data.

[AmogusDiarrhea™(つ´ω`)つ]

get over 60 dex, get 2x Grossmesser, make them lightning damage, equip the following talismans:
Lightning Scorpion Charm
Ritual Sword Talisman
Millicent's Prosthesis
Winged Sword Insignia
have fun