I crave the Chalice Dungeons

[Traveler]

I need some kind of endless dungeon runs please. They would be perfect for coop AND invasions

[CazadorDeLobo]

Given the flavors I've experienced of the preset dungeons/caves in this game, I don't feel there's nearly enough variation to be worth it or comparable; BB's Chalice Dungeons is where the majority of cut/otherwise unused content wound up, whereas in Elden Ring, they built the entire setting off of relatively few assets, squeezing the value out down to the last cent. To conceive of a randomly generated version of this would be to mix white paint with whiter paint.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Step on me, please:

?

They brought them back in ER except they are called caves, tunnels or catacombs now.

Just loot them one by one, same ♥♥♥♥ as the chalice dungeons. They are the same thing.

They aren't the same, BB Chalice Dungeons were procgen

[vamirez]

Lol, I find the notion funny that the chalice dungeons were better content than the handcrafted optional dungeons in ER... as for the OP - I doubt this will be in the DLC, but who knows, maybe some "endless depths" under one of the legacy dungeons. I wouldn't mind and probably go in, but from BB I know that this isn't a feature that captures me long-time. It wasn't bad imo, but it was literally the same repeated sections combined with each other without the tileset variation, themes and new twists present in ER.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Well, Chalice Dungeons are definitely not the same as the handcrafted dungeons in-game and the only likeness between them is their modular design. Bloodborne's goes way harder and deeper than the dungeons in Elden Ring, but, with usually less purpose and reward for the proposed effort.

But at the end of the day, OP is not deliberately comparing the two and saying "out with that, in with this" rather just "add that to this game" and truly, not a bad idea. The game lacks randomly-generated levels to prowl through. For some people, this means if they want practically infinite "new" experiences and discoveries, they have to go back to Bloodborne to get it.

If you haven't, look up how many bosses there are in BB, then look at how many are exclusive to the Chalice Dungeons. This data point alone is why I doubt the formula can be even remotely successful in Elden Ring.

[vamirez]

My "issue" (strong word) with the chalice dungeons and similar procedurally created levels is that they are not varied enough. They are endless combinations of the same sections. That ofc is a technical thing - perhaps AI could solve that in the future. We have enough variation in some rogue-likes and rogue-lites, but these are not fully realized 3d soulslikes, i.e. the presentation is traded in for more complexity. I think, at this point, FS would have to make a "good" implementation of the endless dungeons (including unique bosses) a major point of the DLC, and that would probably not be the best idea... but again, I wouldn't mind a "simple" version that you could just dive in if you wanted.

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by vamirez:

My "issue" (strong word) with the chalice dungeons and similar procedurally created levels is that they are not varied enough. They are endless combinations of the same sections. That ofc is a technical thing - perhaps AI could solve that in the future. We have enough variation in some rogue-likes and rogue-lites, but these are not fully realized 3d soulslikes, i.e. the presentation is traded in for more complexity. I think, at this point, FS would have to make a "good" implementation of the endless dungeons (including unique bosses) a major point of the DLC, and that would probably not be the best idea... but again, I wouldn't mind a "simple" version that you could just dive in if you wanted.

Hell, if they really wanted to invest some time and effort into the matter, porting legacy content forward into this game could be facilitated by an "out of time and space" level generator, housing content that wouldn't quite fit into the story and setting of this game but would at least be a functional revival of past fights/situations.

I know there's not a ton of effort involved in that process from my exposure to modding, but getting it all together and somehow improving upon both BB's CDs and ER's caves/dungeons/catacombs seems like something that might have needed to be conceived a good while ago. Lot of effort building a functional system and then bug testing it extensively... Would harm the quality of the final product, I think

[buttchin]

Originally posted by Traveler:

I need some kind of endless dungeon runs please. They would be perfect for coop AND invasions

Chalice dungeon is the most boring part of bloodborne, remove that and game is 10/10
Play rougelike cancer if you like random generation slop so much

[buttchin]

I'm playing ng+1 and i never explore caves, they all feel like chalice dungeon,boring same cave, reskin boss, nothing unique
I rather have 5-10 hr of unique bosses and one of a kind dungeon instead of random generated copy pasted caves and dungeon worth 100hr

[ressenmacher]

Originally posted by buttchin:

Chalice dungeon is the most boring part of bloodborne, remove that and game is 10/10
Play rougelike cancer if you like random generation slop so much

They were a good PvE endgame, where you could keep exercising the skills of learning level layout and enjoying new combat situations long after the base campaign became stale.

[ressenmacher]

Originally posted by Step on me, please:

Or maybe you want the root chalices back that were only good for farming broken gems?

Again, i fail to see the difference. They are an identical concept except there is none of that dumb gem farming.

Chalice dungeons differ from ER side dungeons in that they:
-offer a significant mechanical challenge in their higher difficulty versions
-offer large, navigable levels with shortcuts and and exploration objective
-contain a vastly higher diversity of locales, enemies, and bosses


ER side dungeons are by and large filler content that is either simple or frustrating to complete and have very low longevity. BB's chalice dungeons offer a PvE endgame based on the tenets of the Souls gameplay system (level navigation and boss fights).

TLDR the principle difference is that BB chalice dungeons offer good and replayable dungeon crawling, while ER's side dungeons don't.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Step on me, please:

I fail to see the difference between BBs chalice dungeons and ERs non legacy dungeons.

We had 10 chalices total with 3 levels or "floors" except lower pthumeru who had 4. Divided by 5 dephts. In ER we have like how many individual caves, tunnels and catacombs spread across 4-5 regions depending on how you draw borders?

I guess you missed having 3 dungeons stacked on top of another? Or maybe you want the root chalices back that were only good for farming broken gems?

Again, i fail to see the difference. They are an identical concept except there is none of that dumb gem farming.

Both were made for....well....dungeon crawling :|

A few differences between Chalice Dungeons and ER Dungeons:

- Chalice Dungeons were procgen, ER dungeons are not procgen

- Some of the Chalice Dungeons had modifiers, none of the ER dungeons have modifiers

- It has been a while since I've played BB, but iirc Chalice Dungeons had randomized enemies or bosses, ER dungeons does not have randomized enemies

- Chalice Dungeons were RNG, but you could share codes so others could use your Chalice Dungeon, similar to seed sharing in Minecraft, ER dungeons are fixed so they're always the same

[ressenmacher]

Originally posted by Step on me, please:

I don't get it. ER literally brought back what you guys are seeking and went as far as to abandon a DS1/BB styled exploration in favor of a larger overworld just to house said dungeons.

Again, i fail to see the difference between two apples.

How many lategame dungeons are in ER? There's 3 in MTotG, 3 in Consecrated Snowfield, and maybe being generous you could count one or two of the really hard ones from other areas.

There's less than ten. They're not terrible dungeons, but they're static - you do them once and then you lose the level learning aspect for the rest of your characters and they become just another mediocre level.

BB dungeons remain fresh because it's a new dungeon you have to learn every run.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Step on me, please:

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

How many lategame dungeons are in ER? There's 3 in MTotG, 3 in Consecrated Snowfield, and maybe being generous you could count one or two of the really hard ones from other areas.

There's less than ten. They're not terrible dungeons, but they're static - you do them once and then you lose the level learning aspect for the rest of your characters and they become just another mediocre level.

BB dungeons remain fresh because it's a new dungeon you have to learn every run.

The mountaintops let alone the snowfields have far higher scaling than anything found at regular NG in earlier games which includes BBs depht 5 chalice dungeons.

You could tank certain hits from a depht 5 ebrietas or loran dark beast at base vitality.

A trashmob in the mountaintops two taps an overleveled 30+ vigor character.

To my memory the chalice dungeons were little more than a boss rush or gem farm simulator. I think nostalgia is getting the better of you.

Rather common around these parts.

Edit: My reading comprehension is banana. Yes, there is indeed no equivalent to BBs root chalice dungeons but the assets are there. I personally never bothered with them.

Maybe in the DLC.

It isn't really nostalgia. It's simply the fact that Elden Ring dungeons are static, you play them once and that's the experience. Chalice Dungeons are procedurally generated, so while they may be similar, they're still varied and have randomized bosses/mobs on top of modifiers. The two types of dungeons offer different experiences. Static/hand crafted means the developers crafted it to their vision, procedurally generated means you can play it over and over and get a different experience. That's why I mentioned "endless" in my OP. Elden Ring static dungeons doesn't offer "endless" runs as after you experience them once, you know what you're going to encounter each time you go through the dungeon again.

Take games like Warframe and Remnant for example. Both of those games use procgen and because of that, even though maps are similar, your runs are different each time. The experience becomes stale slower than if the maps were static. There are benefits to both types of dungeons which is why I'm hoping they're added rather than me requesting the existing dungeons be replaced, or FromSoft changing how they do dungeons/caves in Elden Ring.

Some of the vanilla caves and dungeons were fun to run through, but again, it's a one time experience thing, and that's just how it goes with static maps. You'll never get a fresh new experience of discovering a location on Haligtree again after seeing it once because it's a static location. Hope that explains it for you.

[Alchemist]

I crave them too but considering the scope of ER and how unfortunately a lot of people seem to dislike Bloodborne's chalice dungeons, it's unlikely to make a comeback. I even enjoyed the fixed/story chalice dungeons.
The ER catacombs are alright but they can't match the feeling of dread like when you're descending layers and layers of chalice dungeons not knowing what awaits next, not to mention the cursed and defiled ones where your HP is halved for added challenge. Then a large amount of unique enemies, bosses, items. For example, bumping into the mole was really memorable and made me feel like I found a new obscure species. And lastly the root chalice system which made it infinitely replayable (pvp is especially fun there). Considering how big and ambitious ER is, I can't judge it harshly for the lack of these features. You can tell they did their best with the limited amount of time they had.
If they somehow do manage to implement endless dungeons in ER, I'll just play ER until Bloodborne 2 comes out.

[ColinDJPat]

I don't see a point to chalice dungeons in Elden Ring, and I'm not confident that they'd be implemented in a way that feels worth sinking time in to, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I want Bloodborne on PC so I can play the ♥♥♥♥ out of them in that game :( sad that game is trapped on ps4 with no escape