Souls or souls-like?

[Despiser]

The dark souls games are all tagged with "souls-like" Aren't they the reason other games are described as souls-like? That's like saying civilization is civ-like, vanilla is vanilla-like, water is water-like... They ARE souls, not souls-like. I know it sounds like a petty issue to raise, but with the influx of multiple meaning and often vague words making their way into dictionaries these days like meme, meta, woke etc. I feel as if the language is being degraded through laziness. More troubling trends are the POA (proliferation of abbreviations) because of the same tl;dr mentality. The English language consists of around half a million words for every nuance one can imagine. Let's not dilute it with half-baked terms.

[Despiser]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Postat inițial de Despiser:

Yet you just restated OP’s point. That’s tarded

No, I didn't.

Apparently some folks (yes, including you) are unable to comprehend or accept what the genre of this game is called, which is not anything new btw - the term "soulslike" for this genre has been around for many years now, and what characteristics define this genre (or for that matter, other game genres).

While you guys are crafting hot personal theories, the rest of us are trying to have a civilization, which includes general consensus on how things are called and why, and how to look stuff up on the internet and then accept and incorporate the information.

Btw my initial post here was meant to be helpful, but immediately one of the mad experts had to jump in and start a nonsensical discussion. Which always happens. If you worry about the future of communication - that is the actually worrying part.

It's hilarious you speak of not comprehending when you can't seem to wrap your head around the original point, which is, again, something cannot be like what it already is. So, again, souls cannot be souls-like. That's why I gave examples that you must have missed with your sharp comprehension skills. Here's another: Glass cannot look LIKE glass because it IS glass. It's not that complicated.

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de Despiser:

Postat inițial de vamirez:

No, I didn't.

Apparently some folks (yes, including you) are unable to comprehend or accept what the genre of this game is called, which is not anything new btw - the term "soulslike" for this genre has been around for many years now, and what characteristics define this genre (or for that matter, other game genres).

While you guys are crafting hot personal theories, the rest of us are trying to have a civilization, which includes general consensus on how things are called and why, and how to look stuff up on the internet and then accept and incorporate the information.

Btw my initial post here was meant to be helpful, but immediately one of the mad experts had to jump in and start a nonsensical discussion. Which always happens. If you worry about the future of communication - that is the actually worrying part.

It's hilarious you speak of not comprehending when you can't seem to wrap your head around the original point, which is, again, something cannot be like what it already is. So, again, souls cannot be souls-like. That's why I gave examples that you must have missed with your sharp comprehension skills. Here's another: Glass cannot look LIKE glass because it IS glass. It's not that complicated.

It's hilarious that you assume that I can't understand your original point.

[Despiser]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Postat inițial de Despiser:

It's hilarious you speak of not comprehending when you can't seem to wrap your head around the original point, which is, again, something cannot be like what it already is. So, again, souls cannot be souls-like. That's why I gave examples that you must have missed with your sharp comprehension skills. Here's another: Glass cannot look LIKE glass because it IS glass. It's not that complicated.

It's hilarious that you assume that I can't understand your original point.

So what in that statement are you disputing? Can souls be souls-like?

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de Despiser:

Postat inițial de vamirez:

It's hilarious that you assume that I can't understand your original point.

So what in that statement are you disputing? Can souls be souls-like?

I answered that in post #11.

[EF_Neo1st]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

DS1, 2 and 3 have differences in gameplay, hence theoretically DS1 is the original "Souls" game (or Demons' Souls - your choice, but the genre was probably named after DS1), and even DS2 and 3 are "souls-likes". The problem with the name then goes away, and all other games are clearly "souls-likes".

A souls-like is defined by certain gameplay elements, such as the death mechanic and enemy respawn. Similarly a rogue-like (good example Alby) is defined by certain mechanics such as procedural generation and permadeath. Even a more general genre such as cRPG is defined by a list of such characteristics.

In theory the first Souls was Demon Souls, so the entire Dark Souls series is indeed souls-like, Demon Souls-like, but Dark Souls made it more popular so ... now Demon Souls is Dark Souls-like???
The father is like son and nit the other way around?

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de EF_Neo1st:

Postat inițial de vamirez:

DS1, 2 and 3 have differences in gameplay, hence theoretically DS1 is the original "Souls" game (or Demons' Souls - your choice, but the genre was probably named after DS1), and even DS2 and 3 are "souls-likes". The problem with the name then goes away, and all other games are clearly "souls-likes".

A souls-like is defined by certain gameplay elements, such as the death mechanic and enemy respawn. Similarly a rogue-like (good example Alby) is defined by certain mechanics such as procedural generation and permadeath. Even a more general genre such as cRPG is defined by a list of such characteristics.

In theory the first Souls was Demon Souls, so the entire Dark Souls series is indeed souls-like, Demon Souls-like, but Dark Souls made it more popular so ... now Demon Souls is Dark Souls-like???
The father is like son and nit the other way around?

Probably yes. To recap, DS1 made the genre popular (well, it was an underground hit at first), so all other games can be classified as soulslikes. I don't know exactly when but I assume the term came up when the first third party soulslikes appeared.

[Despiser]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Postat inițial de Despiser:

So what in that statement are you disputing? Can souls be souls-like?

I answered that in post #11.

You were describing what constitutes what describes a souls-like game, which doesn't address the question. Yet you claim to understand the question. Ok, let's refer to post #11 then: Is rogue rogue-like?

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de Despiser:

Postat inițial de vamirez:

I answered that in post #11.

You were describing what constitutes what describes a souls-like game, which doesn't address the question. Yet you claim to understand the question. Ok, let's refer to post #11 then: Is rogue rogue-like?

Yes.

[Mr_Blank]

Dark souls one through three were so influential in the 2010s that they created an entire new genre of video games: highly difficult games that reward the player with satisfying victory or punish them with stinging defeat. These games usually make use of parrying, dodging, and all have a skill gap that the player needs to surpass to win (you can’t beat sekiro as a new player without learning becoming a better player.) some modern souls likes include lies of P, Jedi survivor, remnant 2, and many others. The reason the genre is called this is because the dark souls trilogy truly started this trend of games and defined the genre, so yes, they are the souls games, but by definition of the genre they inhabit, they are soulslike.

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de Mr_Blank:

Dark souls one through three were so influential in the 2010s that they created an entire new genre of video games: highly difficult games that reward the player with satisfying victory or punish them with stinging defeat. These games usually make use of parrying, dodging, and all have a skill gap that the player needs to surpass to win (you can’t beat sekiro as a new player without learning becoming a better player.) some modern souls likes include lies of P, Jedi survivor, remnant 2, and many others. The reason the genre is called this is because the dark souls trilogy truly started this trend of games and defined the genre, so yes, they are the souls games, but by definition of the genre they inhabit, they are soulslike.

Thank you!

[EF_Neo1st]

Postat inițial de Mr_Blank:

Dark souls one through three were so influential in the 2010s that they created an entire new genre of video games: highly difficult games that reward the player with satisfying victory or punish them with stinging defeat. These games usually make use of parrying, dodging, and all have a skill gap that the player needs to surpass to win (you can’t beat sekiro as a new player without learning becoming a better player.) some modern souls likes include lies of P, Jedi survivor, remnant 2, and many others. The reason the genre is called this is because the dark souls trilogy truly started this trend of games and defined the genre, so yes, they are the souls games, but by definition of the genre they inhabit, they are soulslike.

I would say the gameplay of a "souls-like" is more than "punishing death" but "being methodical ikn some way" where you can not just casually braindead play it and finish the whole game without problems (like hack&slash games) and is exactly what creates the "difficulty" of these games, not so much the "death punishment" but "what result in this death" (lack of being methodical with inputs, decision making and positioning).

[vamirez]

Postat inițial de EF_Neo1st:

Postat inițial de Mr_Blank:

Dark souls one through three were so influential in the 2010s that they created an entire new genre of video games: highly difficult games that reward the player with satisfying victory or punish them with stinging defeat. These games usually make use of parrying, dodging, and all have a skill gap that the player needs to surpass to win (you can’t beat sekiro as a new player without learning becoming a better player.) some modern souls likes include lies of P, Jedi survivor, remnant 2, and many others. The reason the genre is called this is because the dark souls trilogy truly started this trend of games and defined the genre, so yes, they are the souls games, but by definition of the genre they inhabit, they are soulslike.

I would say the gameplay of a "souls-like" is more than "punishing death" but "being methodical ikn some way" where you can not just casually braindead play it and finish the whole game without problems (like hack&slash games) and is exactly what creates the "difficulty" of these games, not so much the "death punishment" but "what result in this death" (lack of being methodical with inputs, decision making and positioning).

I think he wasn't trying to define a list of soulslike characteristics, but we could do that - elements include...

- action queue
- stamina mechanic
- "bonfire" checkpoints
- enemy respawn on death
- "souls" currency / experience points
- corpse runs

Feel free to add :)

[EF_Neo1st]

Postat inițial de vamirez:

Postat inițial de EF_Neo1st:

I would say the gameplay of a "souls-like" is more than "punishing death" but "being methodical ikn some way" where you can not just casually braindead play it and finish the whole game without problems (like hack&slash games) and is exactly what creates the "difficulty" of these games, not so much the "death punishment" but "what result in this death" (lack of being methodical with inputs, decision making and positioning).

I think he wasn't trying to define a list of soulslike characteristics, but we could do that - elements include...

- action queue
- stamina mechanic
- "bonfire" checkpoints
- enemy respawn on death
- "souls" currency / experience points
- corpse runs

Feel free to add :)

I did it at some other topic but my list was shorter:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1245620/discussions/0/3875966763776738589/?ctp=3#c3875966763784791416

Postat inițial de EF_Neo1st:

I think Sekiro can "somewhat" be classified as souls-like or "having ssomewhat souls-like mechanics" because:
1 - You can not cancel action with aanother action (such as to cancel attack to jump/deflect or cancel jump or deflect to attack), tenchu if I am not mistaken was very hack&slash-y.
2 - You have a "bonfire" system that work the same as a bonfire at Dark Souls
3 - You have a "Fire Keeper" and a "Blacksmith" that work kind of the same
4 - you die you dont keep all your progress (it is a stretch, yes)
(some "mechanic reasons" that came from the top of my head for now)

Tho I made the list for "Sekiro" souls-like points and even tho Sekiro dont have stamina it still souls-like (to me)

[Mr_Blank]

Postat inițial de EF_Neo1st:

Postat inițial de Mr_Blank:

Dark souls one through three were so influential in the 2010s that they created an entire new genre of video games: highly difficult games that reward the player with satisfying victory or punish them with stinging defeat. These games usually make use of parrying, dodging, and all have a skill gap that the player needs to surpass to win (you can’t beat sekiro as a new player without learning becoming a better player.) some modern souls likes include lies of P, Jedi survivor, remnant 2, and many others. The reason the genre is called this is because the dark souls trilogy truly started this trend of games and defined the genre, so yes, they are the souls games, but by definition of the genre they inhabit, they are soulslike.

I would say the gameplay of a "souls-like" is more than "punishing death" but "being methodical ikn some way" where you can not just casually braindead play it and finish the whole game without problems (like hack&slash games) and is exactly what creates the "difficulty" of these games, not so much the "death punishment" but "what result in this death" (lack of being methodical with inputs, decision making and positioning).

True, I was just trying to put it into simple terms lol. There’s so much more to souls games than just “they’re hard”, especially the ones made by from.

[Senki]

people that try to argue that soulslike isn't a real thing are so obnoxious

it clearly is and has been a thing for years now, get over it people

No one cares about your imaginary gamer points you think you gain when you're a contrarian