So, crafting system, right?

[Cumbusted]

What exactly is the point if a lot of the resources are limited per playthrough?
If I wanna Co-op and wanna roleplay a perfumer or something, I'm limited to only ever buff my buds or myself a few times.. ever. If they die or if I die, that's it, resource lost, too bad.

This is a game that demands your time and attention and lots of deaths, it's a giant open world sandbox but it has non-respawning resources? I understand the final upgrade material for weapons being finite, but really? You can dupe Boss Souls to get the alternative reward but you can't pick up more leaves and plants that are part of more than one recipe?

Why implement this, relatively niche but useful, crafting system if you're going to make it limited per NG then? This hadn't even crossed my mind because I didn't craft much until now but now that I'm aware and want to craft more it just struck me as bad design or lack of foresight.

A lot of ideas in this game, especially past the capital, feel half-baked tbh but that's a whole other thing.

[Mr_Blank]

I only use it for the silver and gold pickled foots, livers, and boluses. I probably get more mileage out of the crafting then most players do, its not exactly integral to the game

[Cumbusted]

Originally posted by csand:

Item rarity is a thing. That's life bro. It's not a big deal
Of course, dupers will tell you their cheating is legit "strategy"

Originally posted by csand:

Item rarity is a thing. That's life bro. It's not a big deal

This isn't rarity, it's an artificial scarcity to the point of farming being worthless.
You cannot get more Arteria Leaves, Aeonian Butterflies, Golden Centipedes, and some other items, "bro." Their drop rates are in the 1-8% range too if you decide to go that route. In a game that demands you to run around for like 100 hours.

Also dupes have nothing to do with this, hell because the resources for crafting in this game are so stupid there's players who dedicate time to being available to hand out resources to others, that's dumb.

Originally posted by Mr_Blank:

I only use it for the silver and gold pickled foots, livers, and boluses. I probably get more mileage out of the crafting then most players do, its not exactly integral to the game

If I'm playing a perfumer and I want to make a bunch of Uplifting or Bloodboil Aromatics I'm limited to a very specific amount, per playthrough, unless I want to deal with extremely low drop rates in an end-game area just to buff myself or my friends.
They were very much marketing the crafting system as groundbreaking for the series only to leave it half-baked and unfinished. I'unno man.

[Fineous🔥]

Hmm all the reagents for uplifting aromatics are farmable with some patience, arteria leaf being the most elusive one as a "rare" drop from the frost trolls near the giants forge.
With that in mind you should be able to farm all the perfume mats you want except living jar shards for ironjar, those are limited to one for every giant jar you kill.

[Cumbusted]

Originally posted by csand:

-snip-

Arcane and drop-rate talismans don't buff their drops that much, you're overvaluing what even the silver scarab can do. at 2% with 200+ item discovery it would only go up to 5%, bud. For the record, these items also pop up in debuff removal recipes not just "very powerful consumables" like boluses for example and it's not trash mobs you have to fight. Like the trolls in the mountains for example.

Basically you're saying, for a 100 hour co-op playthrough where you generally buff in your own world and someone else's or wanna remove bad status, you should only be able to do so... 15-20 times tops. In a game with 200 bosses in each world... where you can only farm 1% drop rate items in endgame areas it's reasonable to only have 30 of items that are used in multiple recipes.

Makes sense, apologies, it's entirely reasonable, especially if you account for PvP scenarios where you might wanna buff as well, and the fact that debuff removal items also use these resources.

Originally posted by 𝕱𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖔𝖚𝖘🔥:

Hmm all the reagents for uplifting aromatics are farmable with some patience, arteria leaf being the most elusive one as a "rare" drop from the frost trolls near the giants forge.
With that in mind you should be able to farm all the perfume mats you want except living jar shards for ironjar, those are limited to one for every giant jar you kill.

The problem isn't patience, it's that these show up in endgame areas and 3% is basically Gacha levels of gambling for basic recipe items. It's just skewed in a really weird way.

[Sparhawk 59]

Farming boring but fun at times to get those precious consumable items and yes i have a few farmed

[Cumbusted]

Originally posted by csand:

Yea, ok I'll concede drop rates could be a bit higher for the high value stuff for sure.

That's part of the problem, it just feels like they ran 'em through a spreadsheet and didn't really consider how long some of it would take either, or how often they'd be used. Eh~

Originally posted by Sparhawk 57:

Farming boring but fun at times to get those precious consumable items and yes i have a few farmed

I don't mind farming, lord knows I've farmed a lot of armor sets and weapons for fashion, 3% is pain though.

I think it could easily be solved if we had some kinda perfumer/consumable bell that gave the shop a bunch of these resources at relatively expensive prices like a few mods do, or like DS3, we already have those for every upgrade stone but the very last.

It would still be endgame and out of the way but with the way this game is structured you can run up, grab the bell, and go back to your regularly scheduled playthrough, you just gotta grind for runes. I do that for seeds already every playthrough to upgrade my flasks anyway.

[Sparhawk 59]

Originally posted by Cumbusted:

Originally posted by csand:

Yea, ok I'll concede drop rates could be a bit higher for the high value stuff for sure.

That's part of the problem, it just feels like they ran 'em through a spreadsheet and didn't really consider how long some of it would take either, or how often they'd be used. Eh~

Originally posted by Sparhawk 57:

Farming boring but fun at times to get those precious consumable items and yes i have a few farmed

I don't mind farming, lord knows I've farmed a lot of armor sets and weapons for fashion, 3% is pain though.

I think it could easily be solved if we had some kinda perfumer/consumable bell that gave the shop a bunch of these resources at relatively expensive prices like a few mods do, or like DS3, we already have those for every upgrade stone but the very last.

It would still be endgame and out of the way but with the way this game is structured you can run up, grab the bell, and go back to your regularly scheduled playthrough, you just gotta grind for runes. I do that for seeds already every playthrough to upgrade my flasks anyway.

you want some items?

[Nibbie]

Originally posted by Cumbusted:

You cannot get more Arteria Leaves, Aeonian Butterflies, Golden Centipedes, and some other items, "bro."

Originally posted by Cumbusted:

Their drop rates are in the 1-8% range too if you decide to go that route.

It's one or the other guy, get your facts straight before ranting.

[Cumbusted]

Originally posted by Sparhawk 57:

you want some items?

Nah, I'm good. We're playing seamless with some mods so we can just buy these.
It just struck me as weird for vanilla when I found out about it so I posted about it to see what others' opinions were, granted I could've been less flowery about it but that's showbiz baby~

Originally posted by Nibbie:

It's one or the other guy, get your facts straight before ranting.

Not a guy but I do have my facts straight. These items don't respawn.
I talked about this with some of the other posters but 1-8% base drop rates on damage sponges means most people won't even realise they exist outside of the overworld, it's statistically insignificant numbers at that point.
I've seen gacha games with better rates lol.

[Tao314zdin]

Yeah, IMO they should have done it so when you craft you create like 10x items at once for most items to be practically usable as a regular part of a build.

On the other hand it might very well be they did not intend player to really use them and the system is just a decoration to add a bit more details to the world.

[Cumbusted]

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Yeah, IMO they should have done it so when you craft you create like 10x items at once for most items to be practically usable as a regular part of a build.
On the other hand it might very well be they did not intend player to really use them and the system is just a decoration to add a bit more details to the world.

It feels like it was added in as an afterthought, maybe inspired by all the other BOTW-likes at the time, though if that were the case the limit just wouldn't be there cos you can cook and alchemy all you want in those games. It feels needlessly limiting.

[Tao314zdin]

Originally posted by Cumbusted:

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Yeah, IMO they should have done it so when you craft you create like 10x items at once for most items to be practically usable as a regular part of a build.
On the other hand it might very well be they did not intend player to really use them and the system is just a decoration to add a bit more details to the world.

It feels like it was added in as an afterthought, maybe inspired by all the other BOTW-likes at the time, though if that were the case the limit just wouldn't be there cos you can cook and alchemy all you want in those games. It feels needlessly limiting.

Or it is just a neat detail that allows you to elevate some things on your choice, like make one of the duo sleep, or give you a bit more time to roll around in the lake of rot.

Not the first time they add something that was not supposed to be regularly used but rather attractive (see blessings and siegs in DS3).

This time the scale is rather big though...

[Yal]

I feel like the item rarity color coding is terrible, if I gotta solve a platforming challenge for a rare blue item and it's just a single Arteria Leaf I just feel insulted after being tricked into wasting my time. Same when opening a chest, seeing a golden glow and then it's just a single Rune Arc.

IMO crafting materials, consumables and equipment should have different glows, because that's the tiers players actually care about (if you see a corpse just has crafting materials you know you can just skip it unless you were going there anyway), preferably upgrade materials should also have their own glow because that's also a really desirable thing that everyone can find an use for.

[Cumbusted]

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Originally posted by Cumbusted:

It feels like it was added in as an afterthought, maybe inspired by all the other BOTW-likes at the time, though if that were the case the limit just wouldn't be there cos you can cook and alchemy all you want in those games. It feels needlessly limiting.

Or it is just a neat detail that allows you to elevate some things on your choice, like make one of the duo sleep, or give you a bit more time to roll around in the lake of rot.

Not the first time they add something that was not supposed to be regularly used but rather attractive (see blessings and siegs in DS3).

This time the scale is rather big though...

The lake of rot is funny because if you roll into it you get the slow version of rot.
If you walk into it you get the fast annoying version.
I gotta wonder if that's intentional because Miyazaki's a troll. Hmmm~

Originally posted by Yal:

I feel like the item rarity color coding is terrible, if I gotta solve a platforming challenge for a rare blue item and it's just a single Arteria Leaf I just feel insulted after being tricked into wasting my time. Same when opening a chest, seeing a golden glow and then it's just a single Rune Arc.

IMO crafting materials, consumables and equipment should have different glows, because that's the tiers players actually care about (if you see a corpse just has crafting materials you know you can just skip it unless you were going there anyway), preferably upgrade materials should also have their own glow because that's also a really desirable thing that everyone can find an use for.

This is another issue I had with the game, and why I mentioned a lot of the additions feel half-baked. The mini dungeons can be ridiiiiiiiiiiiiiiculously hard sometimes and for what? A ghost? A leaf? Bruh! That's arguably worse than the ones in BOTW, at least you can increase your stats with that. Maybe if there was a way to reset them in-game without NG+ like in Dark Souls 2 to get more of the resource they give at the end or something, that'd be cool.

The way the game is structured right now, on first playthrough you go through everything you see and get disappointed repeatedly, then playthrough 2 onward you just grab specifically what you want/need for that run and spend a fraction of the time in the game beating it which is a shame in my opinion.
I'm only running every dungeon right now because Convergence makes it so every single one is worthwhile and they're completely different on the inside sometimes, and thematic to their reward which is either a unique weapon, or a set of spells, etc.

[impuretrash2878]

you could always just make bunch of those items, then backup your save. Personally, I find it kinda lame when people do that. Often I see arena opponents using starlight shards. As if the dang things grow on trees. The ones who do that, they're always the tryhardiest player types.