Is there any point to backstepping, at all?

[GloriousZote]

I want to incorporate some backstepping into how I play, but it's proven to be pretty damn useless, it doesn't have I-frames, that combined with it taking a damn long time to backstep after some attacks, and the backstep not exactly being a lot of range either, has made it absolutely pointless so far.

[Enderspoons]

Backstep lets you follow up with Running R1, which some weapon movesets lean on as an important mixup option for PVP. PVE enemies don't care so much.
Every Souls game's PVP uses it to some extent, but I found it much more useful in older, slower games like Ds2, where the distance it gives makes it a genuinely useful evasive maneuver for out-braining your opponent.

[GloriousZote]

Originally posted by Enderspoons:

Backstep lets you follow up with Running R1, which some weapon movesets lean on as an important mixup option for PVP. PVE enemies don't care so much.
Every Souls game's PVP uses it to some extent, but I found it much more useful in older, slower games like Ds2, where the distance it gives makes it a genuinely useful evasive maneuver for out-braining your opponent.

Doesn't DS2 have I-frames on their backsteps?
Maybe now it really is just a PVP thing, I know that you can follow it up but there's no point of the followup if the backstep itself is pointless and you could choose to instead just keep wailing on the enemy with whatever weapon you have.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by GloriousZote:

Originally posted by Enderspoons:

Backstep lets you follow up with Running R1, which some weapon movesets lean on as an important mixup option for PVP. PVE enemies don't care so much.
Every Souls game's PVP uses it to some extent, but I found it much more useful in older, slower games like Ds2, where the distance it gives makes it a genuinely useful evasive maneuver for out-braining your opponent.

Doesn't DS2 have I-frames on their backsteps?
Maybe now it really is just a PVP thing, I know that you can follow it up but there's no point of the followup if the backstep itself is pointless and you could choose to instead just keep wailing on the enemy with whatever weapon you have.

?????

Backstep out of the way of a charge/lunge and followup into a combo.
You don't need iframes when the whole point of the move is staying out of reach to begin with.

[GloriousZote]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Originally posted by GloriousZote:

Doesn't DS2 have I-frames on their backsteps?
Maybe now it really is just a PVP thing, I know that you can follow it up but there's no point of the followup if the backstep itself is pointless and you could choose to instead just keep wailing on the enemy with whatever weapon you have.

?????

Backstep out of the way of a charge/lunge and followup into a combo.
You don't need iframes when the whole point of the move is staying out of reach to begin with.

More like "Try to backstep out of the way, get hit anyway because the backstep range is pathetic."

[Ard Galen]

didn't we have this topic a while back? anyways, try a rapier, the backstep-thrust is quite good with that one.
also, sometimes thats actually enough distance covered to avoid short weapons or give you time to do a charged attack instead of a quick one.
especially with relatively light gear i think they're actually quite nice, usually i'm just too lazy to integrate them into my usual attack patterns, though i still recognize their merits, as limited as the applicable situations may be.
oh, also you know those cleavers where the charged attack holds it up with both hands like a giant kitchen knife and they now want to proceed chopping the onions? the one red phantom at the church right before caelid has one for example. those attacks can be easily dodged, but if you don't you feel like an onion? the backstep is nice for those, because it helps not waste time by dodging so far away that she's up again when you're ready to retaliate.
TL:DR: limited use, you never really NEED the move, but it helps streamlining fights a bit and has certain situations where you can punish enemies easier by just barely avoiding the hit and jumping back in again.

[GloriousZote]

Originally posted by Ard Galen:

didn't we have this topic a while back? anyways, try a rapier, the backstep-thrust is quite good with that one.
also, sometimes thats actually enough distance covered to avoid short weapons or give you time to do a charged attack instead of a quick one.
especially with relatively light gear i think they're actually quite nice, usually i'm just too lazy to integrate them into my usual attack patterns, though i still recognize their merits, as limited as the applicable situations may be.
oh, also you know those cleavers where the charged attack holds it up with both hands like a giant kitchen knife and they now want to proceed chopping the onions? the one red phantom at the church right before caelid has one for example. those attacks can be easily dodged, but if you don't you feel like an onion? the backstep is nice for those, because it helps not waste time by dodging so far away that she's up again when you're ready to retaliate.
TL:DR: limited use, you never really NEED the move, but it helps streamlining fights a bit and has certain situations where you can punish enemies easier by just barely avoiding the hit and jumping back in again.

The weapon's not the issue for me, it's the backstep itself, haven't used it against Anastasia, but I'll see if I can use it against her next time, if I remember, at least.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by GloriousZote:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

?????

Backstep out of the way of a charge/lunge and followup into a combo.
You don't need iframes when the whole point of the move is staying out of reach to begin with.

More like "Try to backstep out of the way, get hit anyway because the backstep range is pathetic."

Learn spacing

[GloriousZote]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Originally posted by GloriousZote:

More like "Try to backstep out of the way, get hit anyway because the backstep range is pathetic."

Learn spacing

You don't even own the game.
If I use spacing I won't hit my attacks, either.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by GloriousZote:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Learn spacing

You don't even own the game.
If I use spacing I won't hit my attacks, either.

If you learn spacing, you'll hit and your enemy won't.

Backstepping is for controlling spacing.

[Phantom_Cooper]

Ds1 had hyperarmor and Ds2 had i-frames for its backsteps and they were still under-utilized by most players. Seems like a needless nerf to me

[GloriousZote]

Originally posted by Phantom_Cooper:

Ds1 had hyperarmor and Ds2 had i-frames for its backsteps and they were still under-utilized by most players. Seems like a needless nerf to me

would be cool if you could counter certain attacks and deal big poise damage by using backstep-to-attack at the right moments

[CazadorDeLobo]

Originally posted by GloriousZote:

Originally posted by Enderspoons:

Backstep lets you follow up with Running R1, which some weapon movesets lean on as an important mixup option for PVP. PVE enemies don't care so much.
Every Souls game's PVP uses it to some extent, but I found it much more useful in older, slower games like Ds2, where the distance it gives makes it a genuinely useful evasive maneuver for out-braining your opponent.

Doesn't DS2 have I-frames on their backsteps?
Maybe now it really is just a PVP thing, I know that you can follow it up but there's no point of the followup if the backstep itself is pointless and you could choose to instead just keep wailing on the enemy with whatever weapon you have.

DS1 2 and maybe 3 idk, all had mini-windows of invulnerable frames, 2 being the strongest. It is 1000% a PvP thing unless you are using for the attack/moveset.

[Anthreris]

Backstep is still usable, its just not useful in all scenarios. For example there are some weapons such as powerstanced straight swords where I know my backstep into the forward thrust attack has plenty of range that I can use it while retaining further distance between my target and I.
And the Darkmoon Greatsword has the horizontal swipe around the character will can be used to hit multiple targets or a rolling player.

So in summary it can be useful but depends on the weapon, luck, and skill to recognize when it should be used which is basically translates into rarely. (By the way I'm not the best player but have found uses for it, which means an even better player will find more uses than I.)

[SnakeshyperTTV/Kick]

Backstabs.

[nobleberry]

Originally posted by GloriousZote:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Learn spacing

You don't even own the game.
If I use spacing I won't hit my attacks, either.

he might own the game on console.
more to that, you don't own the game either. according to steam EULA, you are just a subscriber
git gud