Hard Swapping is dumb.

[KingJooJooMonke]

I believe hard-swapping should be restricted in favor of soft-swapping. Hard-swapping doesn't really encourage builds and it has no trade offs. Making soft-swapping more relevant allows people to use a larger variety of moves while it being more appealing to more players.

[an entire Roman legion]

Originally posted by csand:

I agree but you're gonna a rile up the sweaties with this one.

yeah lol

[Riskbreaker Y]

Idc either way but if hard swapping is within the confines of the gameplay then you should expect people to use whatever is available to them.

Nimble menu navigation is a skill after all

[cridus]

good luck at adapting against 3 people and potentially an infinite stream of different blues, as an invader, without hard swaps.

[KingJooJooMonke]

Originally posted by cridus:

good luck at adapting against 3 people and potentially an infinite stream of different blues, as an invader, without hard swaps.

Why cant you just do the same with soft-swaps?

Also its not like invasions were ever designed to be fair.

[Legiondorf]

I would be fine with banning hard swapping on aggro but I insist on extra slotties 7 and 8 - one for my crossy when OOM and one for my ashed ordinary weapon I would like to use but drop for sombers. Yeah I roll big stam to carry the kitchen sink so what.

[cridus]

Originally posted by KingJooJooMonke:

Why cant you just do the same with soft-swaps?

Also its not like invasions were ever designed to be fair.

because the game isn't designed to let you carry 6 weapons, potentially all heavy/heavy-ish too, while also having enough poise to not get blendered by anything, while also having enough HP, while also having damage... at levels where you do find invasions.

if you want to have all that, you have to go to at least level 301. good luck finding normal invasions (and a decent quantity of them), at that level.

[KingJooJooMonke]

Originally posted by cridus:

Originally posted by KingJooJooMonke:

Why cant you just do the same with soft-swaps?

Also its not like invasions were ever designed to be fair.

because the game isn't designed to let you carry 6 weapons, potentially all heavy/heavy-ish too, while also having enough poise to not get blendered by anything, while also having enough HP, while also having damage... at levels where you do find invasions.

if you want to have all that, you have to go to at least level 301. good luck finding normal invasions (and a decent quantity of them), at that level.

It's just stupid that they allow you to carry multiple weapons in different slots and they even added a swapping animation but it's completely useless when you can just hard-swap. It just doesn't feel like very intuitive game play.

[cridus]

Originally posted by KingJooJooMonke:

It's just stupid that they allow you to carry multiple weapons in different slots and they even added a swapping animation but it's completely useless when you can just hard-swap. It just doesn't feel like very intuitive game play.

it's absolutely not useless. if you pressure someone they won't be able to hard-swap without getting hit.

[impuretrash2878]

yes I agree hardswapping is for tryhards. I always cringe when my duel opponent constantly swaps from one OP weapon to another OP weapon. But I don't think it should be a bannable offense or anything. It's just one of those things we have to accept, I guess.

[0wnz0r]

the issue is that this game is intended to always be online. jus like demons souls n most of their arpgs in recent years, ur meant to always be online so u cant pause since u can be invaded at any time.

it would be actually terrible to lock a player out of their inventory if they get invaded. thus, floating pause.

also, the game would be too easy if u could pause to heal or adjust equipment for free. too easily abused in solo pve.

thus, floating pause.

the negative side effect is pvp unga bungas think thats "tech" so they abuse the ♥♥♥♥ outta it.

they even ignore the fact that FROM increased the equipment slots from 2 each hand to 3, 6 total slots. rings went from 2 to 4. they dont want players to hotswap like this, they want us to make meaningful choices.

the community whines n complains so dam much every game that they casualize it more n more every game, then try to make the enemies harder to compensate n keep up their reputation.

wat a horrible snowball effect..

[ressenmacher]

Benefits of hardswapping for PvP:
1: greater skill cieling and potential in combat through new strategies and tech

2: greater variety in weapon use. Being able to change lets weapons that are only situationally viable see use and encourages people to run a greater variety of setups because you don't just meet someone who's weapon counters yours and instantly lose in the character build screen.

3: makes invasion style PvP more dynamic - players change equipment to respond to different environmental situations, which is interesting to anticipate, combat, and use.

4: makes buildmaking more interesting by encouraging players to synchronize stat and weight requirements to equip a variety of weapons without making equipping more than one thing a massive penalty.


Drawbacks of hardswapping for PvP:
1: increases skill floor and is confusing for new players

2: creates a greater material barrier of entry - you now need multiple properly upgraded and AoWed weapons to participate on even footing.

3: extreme hardswap tech can be immersion breaking.


Ultimately, I think the benefits, especially the greater weapon selection freedom and more interesting fights it offers. outweigh the drawbacks.

[Señor Brown]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

Benefits of hardswapping for PvP:
1: greater skill cieling and potential in combat through new strategies and tech

2: greater variety in weapon use. Being able to change lets weapons that are only situationally viable see use and encourages people to run a greater variety of setups because you don't just meet someone who's weapon counters yours and instantly lose in the character build screen.

3: makes invasion style PvP more dynamic - players change equipment to respond to different environmental situations, which is interesting to anticipate, combat, and use.

4: makes buildmaking more interesting by encouraging players to synchronize stat and weight requirements to equip a variety of weapons without making equipping more than one thing a massive penalty.


Drawbacks of hardswapping for PvP:
1: increases skill floor and is confusing for new players

2: creates a greater material barrier of entry - you now need multiple properly upgraded and AoWed weapons to participate on even footing.

3: extreme hardswap tech can be immersion breaking.


Ultimately, I think the benefits, especially the greater weapon selection freedom and more interesting fights it offers. outweigh the drawbacks.

You forgot a drawback for hardswaps: exploits. Tumblebuff, skillswap, chainsaw glitch, etc. involve hardswapping.

[KingJooJooMonke]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

Benefits of hardswapping for PvP:
1: greater skill cieling and potential in combat through new strategies and tech

2: greater variety in weapon use. Being able to change lets weapons that are only situationally viable see use and encourages people to run a greater variety of setups because you don't just meet someone who's weapon counters yours and instantly lose in the character build screen.

3: makes invasion style PvP more dynamic - players change equipment to respond to different environmental situations, which is interesting to anticipate, combat, and use.

4: makes buildmaking more interesting by encouraging players to synchronize stat and weight requirements to equip a variety of weapons without making equipping more than one thing a massive penalty.


Drawbacks of hardswapping for PvP:
1: increases skill floor and is confusing for new players

2: creates a greater material barrier of entry - you now need multiple properly upgraded and AoWed weapons to participate on even footing.

3: extreme hardswap tech can be immersion breaking.


Ultimately, I think the benefits, especially the greater weapon selection freedom and more interesting fights it offers. outweigh the drawbacks.

You can do all of that with soft-swapping. But if they were to restrict hard-swapping they should at least reduce weight of certain weapons or buff endurance.

[Sifer2]

It's surprising to me that were 4 games in, and they have not removed the ability to do it actually. So one must assume they like it. It's highly exploitable. But PvP "elites" would be pretty angry if it ever got removed since it gives them a big advantage over casuals just like twinking did back before that got removed.

[ressenmacher]

Originally posted by Señor Brown:

You forgot a drawback for hardswaps: exploits. Tumblebuff, skillswap, chainsaw glitch, etc. involve hardswapping.

Very true.

Originally posted by Sifer2:

It's surprising to me that were 4 games in, and they have not removed the ability to do it actually. So one must assume they like it. It's highly exploitable. But PvP "elites" would be pretty angry if it ever got removed since it gives them a big advantage over casuals just like twinking did back before that got removed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNcJpbPHwdM

To begin with, FROM not changing things, especially in regards to PvP, often speaks as much to apathy or incompetence as it does intent - see FDS exploits being left in place for so long people argued they were legitimate features.

Furthermore, hardswapping adds a lot to the skill ceiling and balance of the game - people would be mad if it were removed because it would create a more limited and stale PvP environment irrespective of advantage or disadvantage.

Finally, twinking is as alive as it ever was - worse, even, because Scarlet Rot exists and standing poise + better flat damage WAs let twinks better push their advantages onto new characters.