Elden Ring has 23 Erdtree Avatars and Tree spirit fight including variants

[BBirdy]

I'm considering on doing a 3rd playtrough and took a look at the Elden Ring Map and enabled just bosses. There are around 155 bosses and I feel like about 20 of them are actually good fights, while the rest are just general trash copypasted everywhere around the map.

I feel like the exploration carries your first 2 play troughs and after that there is really no reason to play the game anymore. If you skip all the trash, you just end up horsing around for about 3 hours and fight total of 20 bosses.

I did go back to replay Dark Souls 3 and that game holds together even after 20th playtrough. I'd go as far as to say that Ds3 is a lot better than Elden Ring and I can recommend that to everyone who enjoyed Elden Ring.

Anyone else left feeling quite disappointed at the pve and pvp stuff?
I feel like the game could have used another year in the oven, so they had time to develop more bosses.

[Lenox]

İlk olarak CourtesyFlush90 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Lenox tarafından gönderildi:

However, can you at least concede that repetition is not objectively inferior?

Inferior to what? Varied, unique, and diverse content?

If so, then hell no I won't concede lol. The problem with ER's recycled content is that it has so much of it that it actively detracts from the overall experience, especially in areas that are otherwise visually remarkable and memorable.

Take Miquella's Haligtree, for example. The location is jaw-dropping aesthetically. But as you're fighting your way through it, you begin to realize that literally every enemy you face is recycled. Every, Single. One. And that's a damn shame because that area (along with a few other late-game ones) have so much potential and really deserved something different - something unique.

İlk olarak Lenox tarafından gönderildi:

Add-on question: Is there anything in your life that you enjoy repeatedly? Cheese pizza, a type of laundry detergent, a certain pen type? Or do you always vary everything in life because you dislike repetition so much?

I'm just going to pretend you didn't actually ask this.

I felt it added to the overall experience. Because the alternative would have been less of everything. I didn't want to play Dark Souls 4. Also, it generally was more memorable for me to fight the later game versions of enemies than the early game versions, which were pushovers.

Miquella's Haligtree would have been cool with some unique enemies. I found it odd that it didn't have any. But I really liked seeing Cleanrot Knights there again.

But if you can't see that repetition is a preference and not just inferior, then I don't know what to tell you.

[opus132]

I understand why they had to recycle bosses but i don't get why they only recycled some specific ones but not others. I mean if you gotta do it spread it out a bit at least.

[HellSlayer]

Whats lame is not copy pasted enemies or bosses but that there is no single build that can clear all content unless you are a streamer pro. Atm im playing butt slam build and its so much fun yet it fails miserably vs radagon or other ultra large creatures. They move too fast and hit too hard.

[Lenox]

İlk olarak HellSlayer tarafından gönderildi:

Whats lame is not copy pasted enemies or bosses but that there is no single build that can clear all content unless you are a streamer pro. Atm im playing butt slam build and its so much fun yet it fails miserably vs radagon or other ultra large creatures. They move too fast and hit too hard.

That build sounds hilarious.

[ressenmacher]

İlk olarak CourtesyFlush90 tarafından gönderildi:

Inferior to what? Varied, unique, and diverse content?

The comparison is between a large open-world game like ER is now and a condensed, linear experience with less repetition of the content.

İlk olarak CourtesyFlush90 tarafından gönderildi:

Take Miquella's Haligtree, for example. The location is jaw-dropping aesthetically. But as you're fighting your way through it, you begin to realize that literally every enemy you face is recycled. Every, Single. One. And that's a damn shame because that area (along with a few other late-game ones) have so much potential and really deserved something different - something unique.

On a technicality I think Miquella's Haligtree actually does have a single non-recycled enemy: the tiny Pests you fight in the lower swamps and church. At least, I don't recall seeing those anywhere else

In any case I think there's a distinction to be made between criticism of Elden Ring's reuse in its concentration/specific use and a criticism of largescale reuse in general. Elden Ring as an open world game of broadly similar size and scope to its current form cannot exist without a broadly similar level of repetition.

Like, at the end of the day, there was no way they could deliver 3-5 times the content of DS3 for the same price, no? The play area was made so much larger that maintaining the linear level of uniqueness seen in other titles was never going to be feasible. To argue against reuse on this sort of scale is to essentially posit that ER should have been a linear game, and this is where Lenox's matter of taste comes in: some people prefer each of those styles of game.

[Koala 4peace]

Never played the other Souls, but reusing assets is common in development for video games, specially in the larger ones. And a good chunk of the charm this game has is in the open world and the exploration. Take that away and the rest barely hold up.

[HellSlayer]

İlk olarak Lenox tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak HellSlayer tarafından gönderildi:

Whats lame is not copy pasted enemies or bosses but that there is no single build that can clear all content unless you are a streamer pro. Atm im playing butt slam build and its so much fun yet it fails miserably vs radagon or other ultra large creatures. They move too fast and hit too hard.

That build sounds hilarious.

It was fun... any humanoid sized creatures is fun.. pvp or flying creatures like bats are possible to hit but possible. But oversized bosses that are hard to hit will be hard to hit because they move too fast like radahn (♥♥♥♥ that guy :D )

[Senki]

Yeah I agree.

Never fought most of the trash copy pasted bosses when I replayed the game. I just ran on the horse for literal hours while only doing the cool boss fights and important stuff.

Would've loved this game way more if it wasn't open world.

But this is just for replayability, as a first playthrough it's mostly fine. And I still like it more than the previous souls games because the builds and combat are significantly better.

[The Spirit of Jazz]

I don't get the "recycled enemies" complaint, even for bosses. In my experience Elden Ring has more unique bosses than other open world games have unique enemies. Far Cry, Ass Creed, Skyrim, Oblivion etc... have you ploughing through mobs of the same enemies over and over yet nobody ever mentions it, but when it's Elden Ring suddenly a repeated boss is a problem? Why?

[CazadorDeLobo]

İlk olarak csand tarafından gönderildi:

Seems fine to me

Yes. This is called an opinion.

İlk olarak FafnirChaos tarafından gönderildi:

This discussion sounds copy pasted.

Believe it or not, multiple people coming to relatively the same conclusion adds credibility to their anecdotes, rather than subtracts.

İlk olarak The Spirit of Jazz tarafından gönderildi:

I don't get the "recycled enemies" complaint, even for bosses. In my experience Elden Ring has more unique bosses than other open world games have unique enemies. Far Cry, Ass Creed, Skyrim, Oblivion etc... have you ploughing through mobs of the same enemies over and over yet nobody ever mentions it, but when it's Elden Ring suddenly a repeated boss is a problem? Why?

It is irrational to base an opinion of something solely on matters of comparison.

[Enderspoons]

İlk olarak ressenmacher tarafından gönderildi:

Like, at the end of the day, there was no way they could deliver 3-5 times the content of DS3 for the same price, no? The play area was made so much larger that maintaining the linear level of uniqueness seen in other titles was never going to be feasible. To argue against reuse on this sort of scale is to essentially posit that ER should have been a linear game, and this is where Lenox's matter of taste comes in: some people prefer each of those styles of game.

I think there may be an argument to be made that Elden Ring is more linear of a game than it at first appears; at least, compared to other Open-World games.

If you think about it, Elden RIng's world structure is pretty much a carbon copy of Dark Souls 2, except upscaled to the extreme:
- An item tucked away in a corner in Dark Souls 2 --> A full-blown Catacombs in Elden Ring
- Diverging into a sub-area (e.g. Cathedral of Blue in Heide's Tower of Flame) --> Getting sidetracked into Siofra River from Limgrave
- Dark Souls 2 offers four diverging paths in its first half, then a linear progression to the key items in the second half --> Elden Ring offers four full continents of stuff and then some, before collapsing back down to a linear track at Leyndell Capital

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Similarity comments aside, I think there is a golden zone for repeating content. Too little and the enemies/bosses you make can go underappreciated. Too much, and your players will be making fatigue posts about Erdtree Avatar #10 in the forums.

The threshold for Too Much Repetition I think is a lot lower for bosses than for enemies. You hardly bat an eye at Stormveil being filled almost entirely with Exile Soldiers, but by the 3rd Cemetery Shade that's been glorified with a healthbar you're already rolling your eyes.
Even for normal enemies though, populating the same Footsoldiers, Soldiers, and Knights literally everywhere does start to get old by the time you're past Leyndell. It would be nice if Elden RIng had actually tried mixing together more than one genre of enemy at a time together more often.

(these ramblings are incomplete but I needed to put my thoughts down)

[vamirez]

İlk olarak CazadorDeLobo tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak FafnirChaos tarafından gönderildi:

This discussion sounds copy pasted.

Believe it or not, multiple people coming to relatively the same conclusion adds credibility to their anecdotes, rather than subtracts.

Ac-shu-aall-ee...

nice try - but it really doesn't.

[vamirez]

İlk olarak Enderspoons tarafından gönderildi:

If you think about it, Elden RIng's world structure is pretty much a carbon copy of Dark Souls 2, except upscaled to the extreme:
- An item tucked away in a corner in Dark Souls 2 --> A full-blown Catacombs in Elden Ring
- Diverging into a sub-area (e.g. Cathedral of Blue in Heide's Tower of Flame) --> Getting sidetracked into Siofra River from Limgrave
- Dark Souls 2 offers four diverging paths in its first half, then a linear progression to the key items in the second half --> Elden Ring offers four full continents of stuff and then some, before collapsing back down to a linear track at Leyndell Capital

I see it now! In the exact same way as God of War is an extremely upscaled Minecraft.

[MULTIPASS]

İlk olarak vamirez tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Enderspoons tarafından gönderildi:

If you think about it, Elden RIng's world structure is pretty much a carbon copy of Dark Souls 2, except upscaled to the extreme:
- An item tucked away in a corner in Dark Souls 2 --> A full-blown Catacombs in Elden Ring
- Diverging into a sub-area (e.g. Cathedral of Blue in Heide's Tower of Flame) --> Getting sidetracked into Siofra River from Limgrave
- Dark Souls 2 offers four diverging paths in its first half, then a linear progression to the key items in the second half --> Elden Ring offers four full continents of stuff and then some, before collapsing back down to a linear track at Leyndell Capital

I see it now! In the exact same way as God of War is an extremely upscaled Minecraft.

Oh my god... mind blown.

He cracked the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ code guys, it's Minecraft all the way down.

[SpottedHare]

The bigger issue with the copy and pasting is this it's just boring. Sure copy and pasting has exist for a while, so dev form the start looked for ways to evolved the content or modify it to make a different bit of content even if it was the same assets. Soft just sucks at this, they don't really have any modifiers they can add other then padding the mob stats harder. Sure this can by them time and push the issuer further away till after they get their 24 hour reviews posted.

Even if the content isn't so copy pasted we have to bust out our magnifying glass and play Where's Waldo with the difference, but its still extremely homogenized content. They have just a single boss encounter that uses not just two different looking bosses, but two bosses with completely different play styles. They have only 7 "levels" in the entire game that can't be solved by thinking of it as a hall way?

It's not the copy and pasting, its the extreme homogenized content.