Demigod's Power Scaling RANKED (Spoilers and DLC Speculation)

[Mr_Blank]

I wanted to share my view on the demigods and how powerful they are in comparison to each other, and would love to hear your rankings as well since mine's probably wrong.

First place: Personally I do think radagon and Marika are the most powerful since they are the vessel for the vassel of the greater will, being the elden beast, and that thing dethroned the DRAGONS for ruling the lands between. Marika was succesfully able to shatter the Elden Ring, and Radagon was almost mended it but failed.

Second Place (tied): If my Godwyn speculation is to be believed, then the second place most powerful demigod would be a threeway tie between Godwyn, who's power levels are unknown and likely high due to having to be killed in his sleep, and for being able to calm, soothe and befriend fortisax.

Second Place (tied) :Malenia is able to literally alter an entire ecosystem by blooming, and was able to successfully wound Radahn greatly, causing his senses to be lost

Second Place (tied): Radahn holds the stars in motion, and is widely considered the most powerful demigod.

Third Place: Rykard as he is immortal and incredibly resistant to any damage that isn't a serpent killer. Also, he has clearly slain thousands of warriors due to his arena and his weapon the blasphemous blade being made almost entirely out of people

Fourth Place: Miqella. although we haven't actually seen his abilities, he was able to create a near perfect Erdtree that only failed because of his curse.

Fifth Place (Tied): Tie between the omen twins. they have similar attack patterns and similar statures, and their achievements of killing champions are similar. If i were to put one over the other, mohg would be 5th and morggot would be 6th.

Sixth Place (Tied): Tie between renalla and ranni, since their personal spells, the full and dark moon, have similar scaling's and damage (Ranni's cooler tho).

Seventh Place: Godrick, duh (also Godefroy).

Godfrey and Malekith aren't demigods didn't miss them >:(.

Btw this is a direct copy from the lore forum post I made on the discord, wanted to share it here as well.

[Lavian]

Rennala's not a demigod. She's just a shardbearer. Her children are demigods because they're Radagon's children.

Also Ranni can just instakill you without even lifting a finger, if she's displeased enough (due to a certain quest line), and is already dead herself, making attacking the body she's possessing at any given time rather pointless.

That said, Ranni also has you kill the Baleful Shadow assassin sent after her, which seems unnecessary if she can just kill people by sheer will alone, so there may or may not be a specific reason that she can do that to you. Hard to say without anything else to really go on.

Kind of hard to place her.

[CourtesyFlush09]

The game explicitly states multiple times that Radahn is the strongest/mightiest demigod, perhaps even surpassing Malenia, Miquella, and Ranni in strength (who are all empyreans btw and therefore one grade above demigods since they're eligible for godhood). However, the game contradicts itself by showing Morgott subduing Radahn in the game's opening slides, which should therefore make Morgott the strongest.

So, this is a really tough question that even I'm not prepared to answer yet lol. And we have yet to see other demigods and empyreans flex their power, like Godwyn and Miquella. Or maybe we never will.

Great topic btw.

[Walrus-Sama]

Morgott in lore is probably one of the strongest. He is seen defeating a young Radahn in the opening cutscene. He successfully repelled all foes (demi-gods included) who attacked Lyndell. He is a graceless Omen, yet he gave his all to protected the Erdtree and is the only demi-god trying to fix things. For that he was given grace and was crowned King.

Mohg is likely to be similar strength to his brother, but is not the sanest individual and seems to be just chilling with his underage femboy that he kidnapped, while also stabbing an Outergod and collecting blood.

Miquella isn't shown but is implied to be the most likely to take Marika's place. Malenia does not believe herself to be worthy but thinks Miquella is and that is why she will act as his weapon ('Blade of Miquella'). Though Miquella himself appears to be very physically weak.

[Citizen of Zozo]

Originally posted by Lavian:

Rennala's not a demigod. She's just a shardbearer. Her children are demigods because they're Radagon's children.

Also Ranni can just instakill you without even lifting a finger, if she's displeased enough (due to a certain quest line), and is already dead herself, making attacking the body she's possessing at any given time rather pointless.

That said, Ranni also has you kill the Baleful Shadow assassin sent after her, which seems unnecessary if she can just kill people by sheer will alone, so there may or may not be a specific reason that she can do that to you. Hard to say without anything else to really go on.

Kind of hard to place her.

Ranni might only be able to insta-kill the player because of the location. Not necessarily because she is individually powerful. With time and effort, she might have turned that room into a magical killbox. It's the place she rests her doll body when it's inactive, after all. Her bastion of safety.
The Baleful Shadows use the flame of Destined Death, which Ranni rightly fears. She knows what it can do. She's also a caster. She can kill quickly and from a distance... but she's flimsy and will not last long in melee. Especially since she is no longer a true demigod, but a soul inside of a puppet. The exact nature of her rebirth is left a mystery, but I can't imagine it's all that different from what Sellen does. The only difference is Sellen inhabits a human body, whereas Ranni's body is artificial. Which would mean Ranni requires assistance to transfer her soul and inhabit a new body. Real or artificial, she can't make the change on her own. Killing her seems like it would work just fine. She's far from invincible.
When we find Ranni in the final stretch of her questline, she is hiding out in doll form. Why do this? The only reason I can think of is that she was planning to ambush the Baleful Shadow with a blast of magic when it drew near. She wanted to kill it with as minimal risk as possible and had no intention of fighting it toe to toe. If it caught her flat footed, she'd never have time to cast. It would have torn her apart. The player interrupts this game of cat and mouse and renders Ranni's strategy unnecessary.

I think we can safely assume Ranni, when pressed into battle, would be like a suped up Rennala. Powerful offense but also easily overwhelmed, so she avoids direct confrontation. I don't think she could have taken the Baleful Shadow, Radahn, or the player for that matter on a level playing field. She's just not really the martial type. No honor, no pride, nothing to prove. She's a manipulator. She's only concerned with winning and wouldn't fight anyone at all unless she had absolutely no choice.
A boss fight with Ranni would probably be something kind of similar to Micolash from Bloodborne and Gwyndolin from Dark Souls 1. We'd have to chase her while she attacked from ambush, retreated, hid, and repeated the process. I think we could also expect plenty of adds helping her out in the form of spirit summon puppets.

[causality]

Miquella has powers of compulsion. It seems insignificant until you realize Malenia of all the candidates, who has killed millions of Tarnished and nuked an entire region says that he is "the most fearsome [Empyrean] of all." He also potentially used his powers to enthrall Mohg (REAL).

I would rank Ranni last place because she needs an army of simps to get anything done.

[Fineous🔥]

Dont count Marika/Radagon as demigods. They are numen (just like the blacknife assasins) a race from another world.
Considering the demigods are their offsprings you can imagine how powerful they are.

About the topic, Radhan hands down since he is the more gifted physically and mentally, we beat him (lore wise) with a little army.
Also of course lets not forget he forced Malenia to use "cheats" to survive a fight against him and all of that just to ruin Caelid and Radhan mind but failed to kill him.

[Lavian]

Originally posted by Citizen of Zozo:

Originally posted by Lavian:

Rennala's not a demigod. She's just a shardbearer. Her children are demigods because they're Radagon's children.

Also Ranni can just instakill you without even lifting a finger, if she's displeased enough (due to a certain quest line), and is already dead herself, making attacking the body she's possessing at any given time rather pointless.

That said, Ranni also has you kill the Baleful Shadow assassin sent after her, which seems unnecessary if she can just kill people by sheer will alone, so there may or may not be a specific reason that she can do that to you. Hard to say without anything else to really go on.

Kind of hard to place her.

Ranni might only be able to insta-kill the player because of the location. Not necessarily because she is individually powerful. With time and effort, she might have turned that room into a magical killbox. It's the place she rests her doll body when it's inactive, after all. Her bastion of safety.
The Baleful Shadows use the flame of Destined Death, which Ranni rightly fears. She knows what it can do. She's also a caster. She can kill quickly and from a distance... but she's flimsy and will not last long in melee. Especially since she is no longer a true demigod, but a soul inside of a puppet. The exact nature of her rebirth is left a mystery, but I can't imagine it's all that different from what Sellen does. The only difference is Sellen inhabits a human body, whereas Ranni's body is artificial. Which would mean Ranni requires assistance to transfer her soul and inhabit a new body. Real or artificial, she can't make the change on her own. Killing her seems like it would work just fine. She's far from invincible.
When we find Ranni in the final stretch of her questline, she is hiding out in doll form. Why do this? The only reason I can think of is that she was planning to ambush the Baleful Shadow with a blast of magic when it drew near. She wanted to kill it with as minimal risk as possible and had no intention of fighting it toe to toe. If it caught her flat footed, she'd never have time to cast. It would have torn her apart. The player interrupts this game of cat and mouse and renders Ranni's strategy unnecessary.

I think we can safely assume Ranni, when pressed into battle, would be like a suped up Rennala. Powerful offense but also easily overwhelmed, so she avoids direct confrontation. I don't think she could have taken the Baleful Shadow, Radahn, or the player for that matter on a level playing field. She's just not really the martial type. No honor, no pride, nothing to prove. She's a manipulator. She's only concerned with winning and wouldn't fight anyone at all unless she had absolutely no choice.
A boss fight with Ranni would probably be something kind of similar to Micolash from Bloodborne and Gwyndolin from Dark Souls 1. We'd have to chase her while she attacked from ambush, retreated, hid, and repeated the process. I think we could also expect plenty of adds helping her out in the form of spirit summon puppets.

It's notable that she also seems to telemurder Seluvis, somehow, or at least specific interactions with her correlate to his body deactivating, and he's still in his own tower.

Also, the mini-Ranni is pretty explicitly shown to be just one of her shells that she can choose to take control of and leave at will. She pretty clearly doesn't need assistance to move about from body to body. Once you kill the Baleful Shadow, she leaves the doll with you, and the next time you see her it's her with a human-sized body having killed her current Two Fingers (which, I should point out that the fact that she still has one of these assigned specifically to her shows that she's still very much a demigod designated by the Greater Will, much to her own displeasure). Then when the body used to kill the Two Fingers leaves, it turns out you can still talk to her through the doll at her chamber's grace.

If you try attacking her at the end of her quest, she's still a protected NPC, but she'll get disappointed and phase out.

She also spends a period of her quest line just letting the body in her rise "recharge" or whatever, with her spirit having left it.

It seems pretty safe to say her spirit isn't particularly tethered to her bodies, though the question remains what the conditions are for her to be able to inhabit them.


Also that battle against Rennala is kind of a battle against Ranni. The second part of the battle opens with Ranni pretty much telling you to piss off and leave her mom alone.

[Mr_Blank]

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[Citizen of Zozo]

Originally posted by Lavian:

It's notable that she also seems to telemurder Seluvis, somehow, or at least specific interactions with her correlate to his body deactivating, and he's still in his own tower.

Also, the mini-Ranni is pretty explicitly shown to be just one of her shells that she can choose to take control of and leave at will. She pretty clearly doesn't need assistance to move about from body to body. Once you kill the Baleful Shadow, she leaves the doll with you, and the next time you see her it's her with a human-sized body having killed her current Two Fingers (which, I should point out that the fact that she still has one of these assigned specifically to her shows that she's still very much a demigod designated by the Greater Will, much to her own displeasure). Then when the body used to kill the Two Fingers leaves, it turns out you can still talk to her through the doll at her chamber's grace.

If you try attacking her at the end of her quest, she's still a protected NPC, but she'll get disappointed and phase out.

She also spends a period of her quest line just letting the body in her rise "recharge" or whatever, with her spirit having left it.

It seems pretty safe to say her spirit isn't particularly tethered to her bodies, though the question remains what the conditions are for her to be able to inhabit them.


Also that battle against Rennala is kind of a battle against Ranni. The second part of the battle opens with Ranni pretty much telling you to piss off and leave her mom alone.

A popular theory is that Pidia is Seluvis. Seluvis dies in the 'inactive puppet' pose for his corpse, after all. So Seluvis wasn't killed by Ranni with her mind or anything. That makes no sense. It had to be physically done somehow. She took control of Pidia's puppets, had them murder him, and the rest is history.
Seluvis dies whether or not the player participates in his scheme. So I suspect Ranni murders him out of sheer dislike. She always knew what kind of person he was, but made use of him. His knowledge and connections were valuable. He was a tool. A distasteful one... but Ranni has zero pride. There is no low to which she would not stoop to accomplish her goals. Seluvis is a reflection of that. A reflection of her morals. Perhaps killing him was her way of reconciling her tolerance of him for so long.

You raise a good point that although she killed her own body to escape being an Empyrean, she remains one. The exact reason for why her original death was necessary is not clear. Perhaps that plan failed and she discovered only the death of her personal two-fingers would free her. Which would be truly morbidly hilarious. The death curse of Godwyn infesting the land, the Shattering, all of that world shaking misery... for a plan that didn't even work!

Her two-faced appearance probably relates somehow to her condition and her unique relationship to her 'bodies'. You're assuming that she is actually bodiless? Not impossible. Melina somehow maintains a similar existence. Notably... despite being bodiless... Melina forms an accord with the player entirely because she needs an escort. If she can go anywhere as a 'ghost' why does she need help getting somewhere? Is Ranni similarly hampered? The rules here are not understood, but it would seem Ranni is not exactly free to flit about wherever she pleases?
Although it's a game mechanic, many NPC's make use of the phantom state in a lore sense to go where their physical bodies cannot. Millicent invades despite being in a state of near death. As a phantom, she is unaffected by her disease and can fight. The Dung Eater escapes his cell in phantom form. Vyke can temporarily escape his evergaol in the same way. Perhaps there's some connection.

Ranni's speech for Rennala's boss fight remains unchanged regardless of whether she's met you, not met you, you've entered her service, etc.
It almost seems... pre-recorded. I suppose it would have to be since Rennala was locked in the library even before the Shattering. I sort of assumed that version of Rennala was a construct not unlike the spirit Loretta that defends Caria Manor. The existence of this construct shows a protectiveness of her mother that is very out of character for Ranni. She leaves Blaidd and Iji to twist in the wind without so much as a piddling lone wolf spirit to protect them in her absence, but Rennala gets a powerful doppelganger bodyguard? Curious. Perhaps a younger Ranni had more attachments to others, but shed those emotions the further her plans progressed. Growing ever colder.

[Mr_Blank]

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[Mr_Blank]

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[Lavian]

Originally posted by Citizen of Zozo:

A popular theory is that Pidia is Seluvis. Seluvis dies in the 'inactive puppet' pose for his corpse, after all. So Seluvis wasn't killed by Ranni with her mind or anything. That makes no sense. It had to be physically done somehow. She took control of Pidia's puppets, had them murder him, and the rest is history.
Seluvis dies whether or not the player participates in his scheme. So I suspect Ranni murders him out of sheer dislike. She always knew what kind of person he was, but made use of him. His knowledge and connections were valuable. He was a tool. A distasteful one... but Ranni has zero pride. There is no low to which she would not stoop to accomplish her goals. Seluvis is a reflection of that. A reflection of her morals. Perhaps killing him was her way of reconciling her tolerance of him for so long.

You raise a good point that although she killed her own body to escape being an Empyrean, she remains one. The exact reason for why her original death was necessary is not clear. Perhaps that plan failed and she discovered only the death of her personal two-fingers would free her. Which would be truly morbidly hilarious. The death curse of Godwyn infesting the land, the Shattering, all of that world shaking misery... for a plan that didn't even work!

Her two-faced appearance probably relates somehow to her condition and her unique relationship to her 'bodies'. You're assuming that she is actually bodiless? Not impossible. Melina somehow maintains a similar existence. Notably... despite being bodiless... Melina forms an accord with the player entirely because she needs an escort. If she can go anywhere as a 'ghost' why does she need help getting somewhere? Is Ranni similarly hampered? The rules here are not understood, but it would seem Ranni is not exactly free to flit about wherever she pleases?
Although it's a game mechanic, many NPC's make use of the phantom state in a lore sense to go where their physical bodies cannot. Millicent invades despite being in a state of near death. As a phantom, she is unaffected by her disease and can fight. The Dung Eater escapes his cell in phantom form. Vyke can temporarily escape his evergaol in the same way. Perhaps there's some connection.

Ranni's speech for Rennala's boss fight remains unchanged regardless of whether she's met you, not met you, you've entered her service, etc.
It almost seems... pre-recorded. I suppose it would have to be since Rennala was locked in the library even before the Shattering. I sort of assumed that version of Rennala was a construct not unlike the spirit Loretta that defends Caria Manor. The existence of this construct shows a protectiveness of her mother that is very out of character for Ranni. She leaves Blaidd and Iji to twist in the wind without so much as a piddling lone wolf spirit to protect them in her absence, but Rennala gets a powerful doppelganger bodyguard? Curious. Perhaps a younger Ranni had more attachments to others, but shed those emotions the further her plans progressed. Growing ever colder.

While Pidia's last words seem to point to him maybe being Seluvis, the fact that Seluvis was one of Gideon's compatriots in the past (still turning people into dolls at the time) makes that seem somewhat unlikely.

There's no reason that Ranni would have to physically kill Seluvis when she doesn't physically interact to kill you either. You just die on the spot when you've annoyed her enough.

As far as Rennala: Yes, it seems like Ranni left a protection spell on her mother with a message to warn off any comers. That said, she actually seems like she's just gets along with most of her biological family. She protects her mother with the aforementioned magic, and on the Night of the Black Knives, she gifted Rykard the Blasphemous Claws, so he could take on Maliketh if need be (so it seems like Rykard probably knew what was up that night).

Harder to know her relationship with Radahn.

That said are lines from Jerren, who serves under the banner of Radahn and leads the Radahn festival:

Originally posted by About Iji:

Well, I haven't heard that name in an age. Then you must serve Princess Ranni? The next time you speak to Iji, tell him this: The festival of Radahn will surely set Ranni's fate into motion. By the by... Is that old fool still hammering out weapons? His enormous frame, cramped in that little place... Bit of a haughty sort. Strange fella, when I knew him. And funny thing, his swords were all blunt as stone. But not one of them decayed when faced with the scarlet rot...

Originally posted by after the festival:

At last, the war festival has ended. Brave champion, you have our gratitude. The celebration was spectacular. General Radahn is surely pleased. Festering with rot, and crippled by madness, all he wanted was an honorable death.

Notably, both Rykard and Ranni lead factions that oppose the Greater Will. While Rykard wages open war against the Greater Will with his recusants and serpentine forces (previously human forces, before they turned on him when he decided to become one with the serpent), Ranni leads a much more covert campaign to remove pillars of the Greater Will's influence.

Ranni's followers know she means to leave them. Iji makes it clear that he knows she's leaving, and Ranni repeatedly tries to tell the Tarnished that she's leaving, until the Tarnished keeps chasing her enough that she decides to bring the Tarnished along on her "dark path".

[Mr_Blank]

Originally posted by 𝕱𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖔𝖚𝖘🔥:

Dont count Marika/Radagon as demigods. They are numen (just like the blacknife assasins) a race from another world.
Considering the demigods are their offsprings you can imagine how powerful they are.

About the topic, Radhan hands down since he is the more gifted physically and mentally, we beat him (lore wise) with a little army.
Also of course lets not forget he forced Malenia to use "cheats" to survive a fight against him and all of that just to ruin Caelid and Radhan mind but failed to kill him.

I did not know that radagon was a numen! I thought that radagon and marika were just both alliuses used by the same person (a father spirit son kinda thing) and i thought this was the reason why their children were cursed.

thanks for the insight ill remember that :)))

[FashionSuckMan]

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush90:

The game explicitly states multiple times that Radahn is the strongest/mightiest demigod, perhaps even surpassing Malenia, Miquella, and Ranni in strength (who are all empyreans btw and therefore one grade above demigods since they're eligible for godhood). However, the game contradicts itself by showing Morgott subduing Radahn in the game's opening slides, which should therefore make Morgott the strongest.

So, this is a really tough question that even I'm not prepared to answer yet lol. And we have yet to see other demigods and empyreans flex their power, like Godwyn and Miquella. Or maybe we never will.

Great topic btw.

pretty sure thats supposed to be a younger Radahn

[CourtesyFlush09]

Originally posted by FashionSuckMan:

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush90:

The game explicitly states multiple times that Radahn is the strongest/mightiest demigod, perhaps even surpassing Malenia, Miquella, and Ranni in strength (who are all empyreans btw and therefore one grade above demigods since they're eligible for godhood). However, the game contradicts itself by showing Morgott subduing Radahn in the game's opening slides, which should therefore make Morgott the strongest.

So, this is a really tough question that even I'm not prepared to answer yet lol. And we have yet to see other demigods and empyreans flex their power, like Godwyn and Miquella. Or maybe we never will.

Great topic btw.

pretty sure thats supposed to be a younger Radahn

That's what I was thinking too. It explains his smaller size.

Maybe he went to Selia to learn sorceries and get stronger after he lost to Morgott.