Why is the Player Character [Tarnished] so overpowered?

[ElectricMutt]

I'd like to know how the player character became so strong, right out of the (First Step, Grace point) gate.

For reference, Godfrey was the first to become Elden Lord and this guy can cause a cataclysmic event with his hands alone. You as the tarnished player character HAVE to defeat him to finish the game, regardless of what direction you're going with the RP endings.

Another such mandatory boss fight is Maliketh whom the demi-gods themselves feared. There's a real chance this guy could've put the fear in just about anyone we fight as the PC and with good reason too. He possesses the rune of death and this very thing was used to kill Godwyn, causing the first true death to occur in this realm for literally ages.
He also ends up using this very thing against us when we fight him.

Of course, we as the player character slap him around like a street mutt.

If that wasn't enough, we end up killing an actual god and the very source behind its godhood. Even if we assume the PC has the rune of death in their possession at this point, I have my doubts as to how it could be used against the Elden Beast due to its nature.

Even Godrick and certainly Margit, could take out just about anything less than a demi-god. Yes, Godrick supposedly hid among the women after he knew Malenia was coming for him, but again, Malenia could make just about anyone ♥♥♥♥♥ themselves so even a "coward" like Godrick would be impossible for anything lesser to kill.

We don't start out with a great rune either and none of the backgrounds of the classes really gives any clue on how your character could be the next Horah Loux or whatever.

There's a few other Tarnished we know about who became very strong I guess.

• Vyke who earned the favor of the dragons
  
• Knight (Recusant) Bernahl
  
  But can you honestly imagine either of those two accomplishing what the PC ends up doing? I don't know, it just doesn't sit too well with me. We have this elaborate world building and here comes a level 1 Wretch clubbing a literal god to death.
  
  What's your take on it?

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by ElectricMutt:

I'd like to know how the player character became so strong, right out of the (First Step, Grace point) gate...

They don't. They go through a 40-120 hour journey to become strong. Right out of the gate you get your ass kicked by a grafted scion. Did you forget?

[ElectricMutt]

Sure and from there on you go on to fight a demigod to a standstill and kill another. Did you forget?

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by ElectricMutt:

Sure and from there on you go on to fight a demigod to a standstill and kill another. Did you forget?

After you've been given a healing flask, a spectral steed, a way to summon ghost helpers, got a powerful sword made of other swords, learned some spells, honed your skills, did a training montage... ♥♥♥♥ dude, c'mon.

[ElectricMutt]

None of that explains how you can kill a demigod.
How about they incorporated that we acquired the rune of death with the help of Rogier ? That's how the player acquires the ability to make their strikes lethal on the strongest foes and the subsequent battles are all due to your accumulated power from absorbing their runes and utilizing the great runes? Simple solution to an otherwise poorly written out foundation.

Besides, a healing flask? That doesn't make you immortal - every single duel sees you fighting an NPC that likewise has a healing flask. Torrent is a means of transportation and can't even be summoned in any of the instances where you fight said bosses.
The sword of vengeance is a side-venture and not a given that its in the PCs inventory let alone use it. The spells? Even the plebs who aren't enrolled into the academy can use them.

It's fine you don't care, I'm not saying you should. I just thought about how this part of the story is weirdly contrived.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by ElectricMutt:

None of that explains how you can kill a demigod...

Okay, you didn't kill a demigod then. It was all a dream.

Originally posted by ElectricMutt:

... I just thought about how this part of the story is weirdly contrived.

All fictional stories are contrived. How does Marika become a god? How does Godfrey become the first Elden Lord? He's Tarnished, and you're Tarnished. What does it mean to be Tarnished? What is a god?

[ElectricMutt]

Classic reaction. Do you take personal offense to some morning saturday boredom? Jesus christ. Nice edit btw.

Rogier btw, is even in Stormveil Castle. They're so close to having a very sensible plotpoint to explain how some random dumbass is elevated to godhood. It doesn't even need to conflict with the reason for why we fight Maliketh - You need the actual rune of death to burn the thorns, not just a piece of it such as the one you find in the back of that tomb.

Btw, I love this game and its story, so you don't have to be sad about how I hate it, not even the story, because I don't.

[Alby]

So there I was, coddling the corpse of my cursed, shriveled husk of a son beside the Elden Throne. Out of nowhere, some douche hat with a loincloth and a wooden club suddenly waltzes in, shoves a fist full of crab meat down his gullet and immediately points to the floor. Then he starts rolling in circles around me as if he was in possession of the Rune of Cardio itself. Now I know why I left this god forsaken land.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by Alby:

So there I was, coddling the corpse of my cursed, shriveled husk of a son beside the Elden Throne. Out of nowhere, some douche hat with a loincloth and a wooden club suddenly waltzes in, shoves a fist full of crab meat down his gullet and immediately points to the floor. Then he starts rolling in circles around me as if he was in possession of the Rune of Cardio itself. Now I know why I left this god forsaken land.

I tried to power bomb him, I tried to elbow him from the top rope. The last thing I saw was this tiny man doing squats on my disintegrating face. I hate tea.

[Alby]

This thread actually reminds me of a something I read a while ago. You gotta look at in another light, OP.

There's a theory based on the idea that people can beat Elden Ring bosses while taking no damage just by running and rolling (things that any moderately fit human is capable of). Add that to the fact that, let's say, a horse, is far weaker than any Elden Ring boss and it's hard to imagine how a smart/patient gamer *isn't* a horse's worst enemy.

Now, before you bring up iframes, just know that you're rolling AWAY from the horses attacks, not under. Even still, there's a guy who beat every boss in DS3 without dodging, rolling, or even parrying. So I can safely assume the same can be done in ER. So if you just go in fully naked, you could sprint from every attack and wait for the perfect window to get a few hits in here and there. You should still roll out of the way of charge attacks, of course. Sure, the ER player is avoiding telegraphed and consistent attack patterns, while the horse is less predictable -- but the horse still has its limits and can certainly be exploited with a similar mindset. A horse can only attack in so many ways.

Let's say you want to argue that the horse has amazing tracking abilities and not just a predetermined spot.

The horse is limited by its vision and can't actually hurt you if it doesn't know where you are. While an Elden Ring boss doesn't even need to have you in its line of sight to know you're directly behind it (and attack accordingly), the horse *needs* to know you're behind it in case it attempts to kick. IF you can surprise it, you can theoretically punch it from behind and immediately roll out of the way of said kick. You'll have to be quick, but it's certainly possible. Then just rinse and repeat the trick of hitting it in the face and from behind and rolling away.The horse obviously won't be smart enough to recognize you're repeating this tactic during battle.

"But the horse is dangerous from the front AND the back! It's rear kick is its deadliest attack!"

You know what else is dangerous from the back? Flexile sentry from DS2. But guess what, players beat that all the time w/o taking damage. Simply adopt the same strategy. Wait for one side of the horse to get tired, get in a few whacks, and let it rotate. Repeat. Flexile Sentry is one if the easiest bosses in DS2, so this obviously isn't an argument-killer.

"Horses are way faster than humans!"

You don't have to be faster than it in terms of MAX speed -- you only have to be able to outrun its reactions within a close range, which is quite possible if you use distractions like throwing dirt in its face or yelling at it really loud (spooks the horse). Plus, horses don't have ranged attacks or AoE. It's like fighting Asylum Demon or something, except this time you likely won't have access to a plunging attack.

Edit: Now apply this to every demigod in Elden Ring but with the cooresponding and necessary factors for consideration, and you'll see that it's quite possible for the average human (assuming they're both moderately fit and have good reflexes) can in fact beat a literal God with just a little bit of planning.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Originally posted by Alby:

...IF you can surprise it, you can theoretically punch it from behind...

This is where I lost.

[königplatzen]

Well, its a game, and somebody, preferably the player, has to win. If you make the tarnished less powerful, it must go this way, too, except it's harder

[ElectricMutt]

It's a little difficult to keep track of your point @Alby, but I think I understand what you're saying. If I understand you correctly why do we not see more tarnished succeeding?

Again let's look at our best case examples of cannonical tarnished success.

I'm a little hazy on Vyke and Bernahl's actual accomplishments. There seems to be some suggestion that Vyke was driven mad with vengeance and accepted the three-fingers mark to pursue that goal. This came about as a result of him (likely) realizing you had to sacrifice your maiden to burn the thorns.

The main takeaway here is that Vyke obviously made it far enough to realize he had to burn the thorns, which parallel to our journey would mean he must've defeated Morgott or someone of equal measure. It's kind of difficult to understand how much Vyke's journey mirrors ours though. Do we even know if he ever defeated any demigods?

What we do know is that he received the dragon's blessing and wielded their lightning. I honestly think that is his golden ticket that made him exceptional. Prior to this, he was very likely not capable of completing his journey, simply due to the fact that he would've been an awesome, but still nonetheless, a knight with a very mortal capacity. The reason for why I think so is because we don't really know anything else about Vyke prior to event in his life i.e. not noteworthy.

And then there's Bernahl, who also seems to be on some quest for vengeance. Except, he decides to join the Volcano Manor, become a recusant and hunt other tarnished. Furthermore, he also puts on an act at your earliest possible meeting with him. Here he talks exactly like you'd expect a knight to and reinforces virtues of valor and so forth, but upon joining the manjor, you find him once again, now in his honest true self where he reveals his madness.

His style of battle harnesses the same power of Rykard's blasphemous blade. Just like Vyke, he also embraces a profane path to become something else entirely. Prior to this happening, he was, like Vyke, an exceptional knight, but again, not much of anything special without these fated deviations from the path of grace.

As I've suggested before, I think we too as the player character, required something similar to reach that potential of godslaying champion. The lore has done nothing to indicate otherwise.

Early in Stormveil Castle, you come across Rogier who possesses intimate knowledge on the dagger that contains in part, the rune of death. This is the very early game and could easily have been worked in as a main questline, seamlessly too.

As for your ideas, I think it can only really be intepreted as "death by a thousand cuts", but I find it a little unconvincing. For one, I don't understand why we don't have more clear contenders against the likes of Godrick, who is the weakest of the demi-gods by a long-shot. Armies were sent against his rule, but we have no actual clear-cut examples of tarnished truly challenging Godrick.

But as it stands, all we got is "I cleared the map of Limgrave lmao" which I don't think qualifies as good writing. It's not thought out to the extend I'd expect a From Software, Miyazaki story to be. It's also only really an issue up until the point where we dispatch of Godrick, because after this point, we acquire a great rune and his runes on his person: This is a convincing power boost in my opinion, but the issue stems from the fact that prior to that, we are just a random dumbass.

I want to be clear that in spite of the OP, I can absolutely believe that the PC has acquired enough resources and strength by the time you reach Maliketh. The reason is simply that you have to have walked the main cannonical path to get there and that entails having acquired several great runes and weapons/armor etc.

It's really just out of my passion for this game that I scrutinize such a small part of the overall story.

[LiDDeRz]

Some don't most people don't get past the 1st boss. Not ever tarnished amounts to anything.

[Fineous🔥]

Depends the tarnished of course. Dont come here and tell me a level 1 wretch can be considered overpowered......but yeah we become more powerful the hard way and with the help of Melina.

"Hey you, here take this stick now go and kill god"

[vamirez]

The premise of the game is that you, the underdog, has to accomplish this impossible task - but it is possible by picking up super-powerful weapons and spells. These items and abilities are on par with the power of your foes - it's similar to the stuff they use, based on the same sources of power, etc. And you even have a smith with the mission to make you a god-slaying weapon at your side. Plus the runes you collect that make you more powerful by yourself - these tiny fragments of the Elden Ring you consume all the time. That's it. No mind-bending needed. You have a fighting chance using the super-powerful stuff that you can find and master along the way.