Why does Gideon turn on us?

[komra³³]

So this is the only thing I dont fully understand about the story. Anyone explain?

[CourtesyFlush09]

Първоначално публикувано от Pseudomonarchiadaiymo:

Because he wanted to be elden lord too, and obviously, there can’t be two elden lords, so he faces you just before you can become the elden lord

Besides being way too obvious and boring, this theory doesn't make sense either.

He specifically says that "A Tarnished cannot become a lord" as he's dying. And as we know from the game's opening, Gideon himself is a Tarnished.

There's definitely a reason for why he's trying to stop you, but I don't think anyone has pieced it together yet.

[Citizen of Zozo]

All of the Tarnished are (technically, many abandon the mission) trying to become Elden Lord. There can only be one Elden Lord. Therefore the endpoint of this struggle is inevitably a Highlander situation.
You could almost think of it as a tournament where the last two Tarnished standing are Godfrey... and us. It's a nice touch that Godfrey is shown a grace beam leading towards us in his opening cutscene. We are *his* next and final obstacle. Apparently he was on his own journey this whole time just as we were.

Gideon is somewhat unique as a Tarnished because he never dirties his hands like everyone else. Though he does take many Tarnished into his service and employs them as enforcers and intelligence gatherers. He stays at the Roundtable and assumes a 'support' role, at least on the surface. In reality he is biding his time and hoping to sucker punch someone at the finish line.
Still, he provides other Tarnished with information and advice to help them (in the short term). He's a useful NPC early on. No one tells us more about the situation in the Lands Between than Gideon does.

It makes perfect sense for Gideon to attack us simply to become Elden Lord in our place and I believe that was originally his intention. There is a lot of evidence to suggest Gideon definitely planned to become Elden Lord. Plans change though. Gideon learned something that made him decide that a new Elden Lord was not only impossible but undesirable. He seems to have received a vision from Marika about exactly what her will is, and says as much. Since Radagon and Marika occupy the same body, however, many theorize that what Gideon received was not the will of Marika... but the will of Radagon.
This is supported by the words of Hewg, our blacksmith. Hewg is fairly upfront about the fact that Marika asked him to forge a weapon that could kill her. A weapon to kill a god. I think this disclosure of information is kind of funny, because it reveals something important that the All-Knowing/All-Hearing Gideon didn't know... and it's only a short distance away. It's also information offered freely, easily obtained.
If Gideon had known about Radagon, would it have changed the outcome? Would we still fight him? Probably. I don't think it would change anything at all besides Gideon's motivation to fight us.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Първоначално публикувано от Gideon:

...I am known as Gideon Ofnir. As a Tarnished who wishes to stand before the Elden Ring and become Elden Lord, I am accumulating knowledge...

[Lenox]

It always surprised me that people got mad at Varre but not Gideon. If Gideon were killable, I would have killed him pretty early on. Public Enemy #1 for me.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Първоначално публикувано от Norm Macdonald's Ghost:

Първоначално публикувано от Gideon:

...I am known as Gideon Ofnir. As a Tarnished who wishes to stand before the Elden Ring and become Elden Lord, I am accumulating knowledge...

Ok?

He says that very early on in the game, but when you kill him, he contradicts himself by saying "A Tarnished cannot become a lord." Gideon is a Tarnished.

Either he saw or heard something that completely made him do a 180, or he was lying all along.

[rkmugen]

Gideon is a tryhard. Surely.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Първоначално публикувано от rkmugen:

Gideon is a tryhard. Surely.

*Knowhard

[Senki]

he's just jealous cause we got all the maidens in the lands between

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Първоначално публикувано от CourtesyFlush90:

Първоначално публикувано от Norm Macdonald's Ghost:

Ok?

He says that very early on in the game, but when you kill him, he contradicts himself by saying "A Tarnished cannot become a lord." Gideon is a Tarnished.

Either he saw or heard something that completely made him do a 180, or he was lying all along.

He says a lot of things. He knows a lot of things. He's got eyes an ears everywhere, and he convinces people to do things for him. It's almost like he's an unreliable, spy-like character who's trying to pull the strings for personal gain.

Edit: or maybe I'm reading too much into it and he's not the obvious trope I think him to be.

[samplexample]

Gideon is basically controlled opposition. Hes not abiding to the stated mission of the Roundtable, his goal is to suppress possible suitors to Elden Lord or at least manipulate/control them through strategically withheld information.
His own reasoning is up to interpretation. I always thought he had myopic, naive understanding of the Golden Order and it led him to unquestioning allegiance.
He sees the royals as infallible, and thus sees Marika's curse as a blessing.

[fauxpas]

Първоначално публикувано от Norm Macdonald's Ghost:

Първоначално публикувано от CourtesyFlush90:

Ok?

He says that very early on in the game, but when you kill him, he contradicts himself by saying "A Tarnished cannot become a lord." Gideon is a Tarnished.

Either he saw or heard something that completely made him do a 180, or he was lying all along.

He says a lot of things. He knows a lot of things. He's got eyes an ears everywhere, and he convinces people to do things for him. It's almost like he's an unreliable, spy-like character who's trying to pull the strings for personal gain.

Edit: or maybe I'm reading too much into it and he's not the obvious trope I think him to be.

I can't think of a single character in Elden Ring that doesn't fall under an obvious trope, including the Tarnished of No Renown
... So with that bit of truth out of the way all we can go is look at him through the lens of the world at large.

So yes, he's a scholar and a politician who doesn't like to get his hands dirty and instead built an organization to handle things for him.

However, the game portrays him as being at least as competent as everyone else is in the Lands Between (which is sadly not very given the entire setting requires repeatedly passing multiple idiot ball tropes around) so we can't sinoly dismiss his dying words out of hand.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Първоначално публикувано от Norm Macdonald's Ghost:

He says a lot of things. He knows a lot of things. He's got eyes an ears everywhere, and he convinces people to do things for him. It's almost like he's an unreliable, spy-like character who's trying to pull the strings for personal gain.

Right, which is why I'm confused as to why you quoted Gideon's words as if they were meant to be some source of truth.

[Norm Macdonald's Ghost]

Първоначално публикувано от fauxpas:

Първоначално публикувано от Norm Macdonald's Ghost:

He says a lot of things. He knows a lot of things. He's got eyes an ears everywhere, and he convinces people to do things for him. It's almost like he's an unreliable, spy-like character who's trying to pull the strings for personal gain.

Edit: or maybe I'm reading too much into it and he's not the obvious trope I think him to be.

I can't think of a single character in Elden Ring that doesn't fall under an obvious trope, including the Tarnished of No Renown
... So with that bit of truth out of the way all we can go is look at him through the lens of the world at large.

So yes, he's a scholar and a politician who doesn't like to get his hands dirty and instead built an organization to handle things for him.

However, the game portrays him as being at least as competent as everyone else is in the Lands Between (which is sadly not very given the entire setting requires repeatedly passing multiple idiot ball tropes around) so we can't sinoly dismiss his dying words out of hand.

In my opinion, it's implied some tarnished are more capable than others. Examples: Vyke made it as far as the Fire Giant before he turned. D looked like he was on his way to Caelid when we first meet him. Rogier makes it to Stormveil before he eats ♥♥♥♥. Aside from his machinations, it's not very clear how capable Gideon actually is.

[fauxpas]

Vyke believed a body snatching lunatic who can't even make it through one conversation without sounding like a bad parody of a Bond Villian parody skit and it broke not only his mind but also his will to continue. ... And the girl still died.


Rogier wasn't in Stormveil to challenge Goldrick, he was there to fondle a rotting growth of a dead demigod and died because of it, add to that he was most likely acting on Fia's orders which makes him a less capable Ensha. (He was a decent friend at least.)


Dee also wasn't hunting demi-gods, his only focus is on the Undead, his story is occasionally being available to help you kill a few mini-bosses until he's killed because you were manipulated into showing him his brother's dagger. By Fia of all people.


Gideon managed to build an organization of disposable fools who gathered enough information that he was able to point his most competent lacky at all but the most hidden demigods and was considered the default leader of the Roundtable Hold, and the best part, in order to get said lacky into his service all it tool was a slight insult and a challenge. ... That puts him on par with the rest of the Tarnished you mentioned, hence my comment that everyone in the setting is a trope holding an idiot ball.

[fauxpas]

Oh, and we can't forget that for better or worse, the Fingers hold Gid in high regard and implies he holds two Great Runes as well given that is the bare requirement to become Lord ... now we are never told which runes he held, but the walking mausoleums hold bodies of dead and soulless demigods whom we never learn the names of, so there is alot of branches in Marika's family tree we never get to see.